Bad news regarding the Type #8

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Postby vanshnookenraggen » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:35 am

Those trams look much classier than the Type 8s. I always thought they were rather ugly, even on the inside.
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Postby jwhite07 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

CKD has little chance in meeting "Buy American" standards - they have never been awarded a light rail contract in the US and do not have any manufacturing capability here.

Kinki Sharyo, Bombardier, or Siemens seem far more likely. All have experience in the US market, all have the capability to manufacture or at least perform final assembly in the US, and as far as Boston goes, all have (or will soon have) rail vehicles operating here. Kawasaki is another possibility.

Idle speculation here, but what I would do is tap KS for another "emergency" order of 25 or 30 Type 7s, if they can be delivered in a year or so. That would allow for the retirement of the Boeings plus fill in for the Type 8s we're stuck with to get worked over a few at a time until they start performing acceptably. Meanwhile, get the ball rolling on a new order of 50 or so low-floor cars from someone (maybe Kinki, maybe not) to make up for the loss of the remaining Breda order.
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Postby octr202 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:06 am

One has to wonder if the new (Type 9?) low floor cars will be able to be delivered before the original Type 7's start having age related problems, or need to go out for serious mid-life rebuilds (which, considering how good they seem to be, I'd hope they'd get). Also, considering that the Boeings are over the hill, and even with about 35 each of Boeings and T8's, and 110-115 T7's, the Green Line is still strained for capacity, that stopgap order for more T7's might need to be bigger.

Too bad the Green Line is such an unusual creature -- there's really no where in North America you could purchase or lease old equipment from to provide relief (i.e., as Salt Lake City did with Dallas LRV's for the Olympics). And, that's assuming that anyone has spare vehicles too...
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
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Postby Cotuit » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:04 am

Isn't SF Muni using the same Breda's? Why is Boston having so many problems and not SF? Could Muni perhaps be a place for us to send our unwanted cars to?
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Postby octr202 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:18 am

Cotuit wrote:Isn't SF Muni using the same Breda's? Why is Boston having so many problems and not SF? Could Muni perhaps be a place for us to send our unwanted cars to?


The SF Breda's are a different design. They are high floor cars with apparently powered traps over the steps to make them able to serve both high and low platforms. The MUNI system has high platforms in the subway and some key stations. The SF cars also are single articulated, making them essentially similiar to the Type 7 or Boeing in configuration.

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sf/munimetro.html
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
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Postby BC Eagle » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:59 pm

octr202 wrote:One has to wonder if the new (Type 9?) low floor cars will be able to be delivered before the original Type 7's start having age related problems, or need to go out for serious mid-life rebuilds (which, considering how good they seem to be, I'd hope they'd get).


The article actually says it is uncertain if the new cars will be low floor in design or not.
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Postby CSX Conductor » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:38 pm

Buy some PCC's !!! LOL :P
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Postby Nasadowsk » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:17 pm

Hey, they're cheap, they work, and people like 'em

It's silly that in this day/age, nobody has bothered just doing a stainless duplicate of the PCC, with AC traction, better trucks, and a wheelchair lift. Throw in decent A/C, and you could have a long lasting, light, cheap, and simple streetcar for 'legacy' systems and such.

Even stupider - today's LRTs are slower, heavier, and use more power than the PCCs did, and ride poorly to boot. Ain't progress wonderful? :(
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Postby Cotuit » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:31 pm

octr202 wrote:The SF Breda's are a different design.


Oh well, so much for unloading our trash on them, maybe we can trick Philly into taking 'em. :wink:
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Postby typesix » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:02 pm

Philly did modernize some PCCs for their Route 15, but aren't being used at the moment.
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Postby octr202 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:31 pm

Streetcars from Philly aren't the easiest drop-in replacement, since they operate on wide gauge (5 feet 2 something inches I believe).

Although, if SEPTA really implodes and shuts down, maybe the T could get some Kawasaki's pretty cheap if they'd be willing to regauge 'em and put pans on them! :wink:
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
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Postby typesix » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:36 pm

Regauging PCC trucks are no big deal either although Boston would never get the Philly cars, standard length streetcars will never be bought again for the Green.
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Postby efin98 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:23 pm

Nasadowsk wrote:Hey, they're cheap, they work, and people like 'em

It's silly that in this day/age, nobody has bothered just doing a stainless duplicate of the PCC, with AC traction, better trucks, and a wheelchair lift. Throw in decent A/C, and you could have a long lasting, light, cheap, and simple streetcar for 'legacy' systems and such.

Even stupider - today's LRTs are slower, heavier, and use more power than the PCCs did, and ride poorly to boot. Ain't progress wonderful? :(


The Type 6 was supposed to be similar to what you are proposing, possibly with a few things left out. THose gave way to the Boeing LRVs unfortunately...
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Postby AEM7AC920 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:06 pm

Now I can't wait to see the outcome of the court case and what's to be done about future cars and the breda's that are built but not on the T's property. I can't see any other tranist authority buying them because they are flat out horrible.


With all that said all that's left to say is

Na,Na,Na,Na, Hey Hey Hey, GOODBYE!!! :P (Breda)
AMTRAK HAWK DETECTOR TRACK 1 NOOO DEFECTS OUT!
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Postby ST214 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:00 pm

Roll 'em over and cut up the pieces of s*&t. Enough is enough. Sue Breda for the FULL amount already paid and then some.
Hoping for a rebirth of the Screamer fleet.
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