window guards on the locomotives/control cars

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window guards on the locomotives/control cars

Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:27 pm

why do the MBTA engines and control cars have these window guards and other RR's, like Amtrak, don't have the guards? did something happen many years ago that made the MBTA change it rules and all loco's had to have these on?
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window guards

Postby Porter Sq » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:51 pm

I have heard these refered to as ghetto guards.And Ithink there used to prtect the enginer if there is any thing thorwn at the window.
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Postby RailBus63 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:31 am

During the '70's and '80's, Amtrak F40's assigned to the Northeast Corridor had these screens also. Not sure when they were removed.

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Postby typesix » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:35 pm

Also known as ghetto grates.
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Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:10 pm

i hate them on the locomotives and control cars :( , but it is for safety so that is good :-D
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Postby ST214 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:10 pm

They affect visibility at night. The only thing i've ever seen tehm being used as was a clothesline and a rack for dead birds.
Hoping for a rebirth of the Screamer fleet.
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Postby SnoozerZ49 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:38 pm

It is misleading to refer to them as "ghetto grates". All kinds of things in all kinds of neighborhoods are thrown at trains. The last thing my engineer and I came across was a telegraph pole aimed at us. Luckily it was so dry it shattered upon impact. Bricks lobbed from embankments along the right of way are convenient locations to fire missles at trains as well.

Usually the culprits are white male suburban teenagers that enjoy causing mayhem, they think it's a "right". The grates sure are ugly and they probably don't provide half the protection that the engineer needs.
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Postby AEM7AC920 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:37 pm

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:i hate them on the locomotives and control cars :( , but it is for safety so that is good :-D



I hate them but they are there for a safety issue also, this bring up the story of the engineer who got killed a few years ago because some kids dropped the old fashion window weights in front of the train aiming for the fans but instead the train ran into them and that broke the windshield and the engineer got killed.
AMTRAK HAWK DETECTOR TRACK 1 NOOO DEFECTS OUT!
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Postby TomNelligan » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:46 pm

The use of windshield screens in the Northeast goes back to 1968, when the New Haven RR began installing them on some freight locomotives. At the time, some NH head end crews working the Bay Ridge freight line in Brooklyn had taken to wearing hard hats in the cab for protection from rocks and other projectiles. Grates became a lot more common in the Northeast after a passenger riding in the rear dome of a United Aircraft TurboTrain was killed by a rock dropped on the train near Canton Junction circa 1970. Most Amtrak F40s, E8s, and E60Cs in NEC service had window grates in the 1970s... in fact you could identify the Chicago-based F40s that came into Boston on the "Lake Shore Limited" by the fact that they didn't.

Mr. 1050 does raise an interesting question as to why the MBTA continues to use them in 2004, since improvements in materials enginering over the past generation have led to window glazing that is basically bulletproof, and other carriers no longer use screens for protection. Erring on the side of caution, maybe?
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Postby AEM7AC920 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:01 pm

I can answer the last part of that the MBTA doesn't want to put out the time more money to have the things removed. Now I wonder how the loco's and cars would look without them.
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Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:29 pm

i know the engine cab pictures would surely come out a lot better :wink:
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Postby SnoozerZ49 » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:50 pm

Please let's not get started on how bad the T is. This isn't "badtransit.com"
The T sure has it's problems but every single issue or question can't be answered with a charge of ineptitude, laziness or frugality against the T. There may be improvements in materials but the grates do add some level of protection. What really needs to be done is armor plate the end panel on the nose of the control car to resist telephone polls, steel bars, ties, etc... My favorite locations for obstacles include: Ball Square, the curve north of Tufts University and The Concord River Bridge in Lowell. Oh ya, I can't leave out Sherman St in Cambridge on the Fitchburg Route or Gloucester, or...

As I said before, a lot of people think that causing mayhem is their "right", just like "tagging" entire trains with graffitti is "art".
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Postby CSX Conductor » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:05 pm

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:i know the engine cab pictures would surely come out a lot better :wink:


I understand what you mean MBTA F40PH-2C 1050, but as Snoozer stated, the safety of the crew is priority. {remember, when you get a cab ride it is actually violating NORAC Rule L }


Snoozer, I can see why Sherman St. on the Fitchburg would be plagued by debris, poorly lit @ night, plus many teens in the area, especially from the towers Alewife Brook Parkway.

As for graffitti on passenger equipment, it pisses me off to see it, afterall we are paying for the equipment, and the maintanence expenses through our tax dollars. Now on the other hand, I have handled many freight cars with some darn good graffitti, which kinda adds some character to its appearance. :P
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Postby ST214 » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:33 pm

I also hear of an Amtrak train in the late 80's or early 90's that had a motorcycle thrown off a bridge at the train. They missed the engine and instead left a hole and huge dent in the roof of an Amfleet coach.
Hoping for a rebirth of the Screamer fleet.
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Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:54 pm

[quote="CSX Conductor
I understand what you mean MBTA F40PH-2C 1050, but as Snoozer stated, the safety of the crew is priority. {remember, when you get a cab ride it is actually violating NORAC Rule L } [/quote]


Yeah i know the safety of the crew is a lot more important, i was just saying that ......i didn't mean a picture was more important than someone's life
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