Light Rail to Arborway Officially Dead

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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby 3rdrail » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:27 pm

Yeah, I had thought of the Arborway. It's location seemed to beat the purpose where it's adjacent to Forest Hills Station. Too bad that large empty parking lot at St. Ann/Asticou got gobbled up in the new station's construction (bus apron and Washington St. ???), as it would have been up for grabs otherwise, but alas, it too would be close to Forest Hills Station. At the risk of objection, I did think of the South Street Projects (old Jamaica Plain Carhouse) and the row of old apartment buildings on South Huntington from Huntington to Heath. Both locations have seen better days and are about ready for the bulldozer in my opinion. As far as your question about "which building", you know that I'm going with 13. If only the walls could talk, they would have some stories to tell. I had been in it as a kid, registering my bicycle, etc. and never made it back while on the job, going right into 3347 Wash instead. I did have occasion to go back however in it's current incarnation as condominium apartments, but it wasn't for old times sake. I was at the scene of a murder on the second floor. (It wouldn't have happened there in the old days !) :-)
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby jaymac » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:03 pm

Just guessing, but probably it'll be the townhouse approach after the outer Huntington and South H. to Heath brick apartment blocks make used brick dealers happy. I can't see anything really high-density going in there, if for no other reason than to not have pressure for greater capacity than buses can provide.
Charles Street becomes a luxury hotel and 13 gets condo-ized? Whatta world!
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:44 pm

Not Charles, but 154 Berkeley. Lots of streetcars passed by back in the day from all sorts of companies ! (Have you seen the old Charles Street Jail ??!!)
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby jaymac » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:27 am

Not from the inside in either of its incarnations, but as a frequent flier to the late, lamented Buzzy's.
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby Teamdriver » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:33 am

3rdrail wrote:Yeah, I had thought of the Arborway. It's location seemed to beat the purpose where it's adjacent to Forest Hills Station. Too bad that large empty parking lot at St. Ann/Asticou got gobbled up in the new station's construction (bus apron and Washington St. ???), as it would have been up for grabs otherwise, but alas, it too would be close to Forest Hills Station. At the risk of objection, I did think of the South Street Projects (old Jamaica Plain Carhouse) and the row of old apartment buildings on South Huntington from Huntington to Heath. Both locations have seen better days and are about ready for the bulldozer in my opinion. As far as your question about "which building", you know that I'm going with 13. If only the walls could talk, they would have some stories to tell. I had been in it as a kid, registering my bicycle, etc. and never made it back while on the job, going right into 3347 Wash instead. I did have occasion to go back however in it's current incarnation as condominium apartments, but it wasn't for old times sake. I was at the scene of a murder on the second floor. (It wouldn't have happened there in the old days !) :-)

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I think I remember 3347 as maybe a Rexall drug store at one time. My father used to park his 1951 Plymouth across the street on Glen street and take us on the train to Haymarket and fill up the two leather shopping bags with fruit and vegetables ( mostly spuds ) , and on the return trip stop in at Kilgarriff's or the Midway and the Braddock. Those were the days!
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby 3rdrail » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:13 pm

That was Ruggiero's Market. They were there and displaced by the city, who built them a new store one lot north.They went to 3345 Washington St. Back then, it looked a lot different. With the stairwell coming down from Green Street Station along with the El itself, it was a dark corner.Somewhere, I recall somebody mentioning an envisioned new routing for the Arborway streetcar line as using Green St. from Centre. The line would cross Wash and come in through the back door into the Arborway via Dungarven/Stedman alignment. I can see that working, although I'd like to see the direction on Seaverns change and for it to allow for easy westerly travel by emergency vehicles.
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby Teamdriver » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:43 am

Here goes a former trolley stop institution : Home for Little Wanderers gets $18M tax-exempt bond

http://bostonherald.com/business/real_e ... ition=also
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:39 pm

Sorry to see them go. A fine institution and one that truely cares for kids more than donations. Never had to investigate them for abusing kids in JP, unlike a certain other institution near the Faulkner.
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby Teamdriver » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:52 pm

The old days on the trolley line ( and other parts of JP as well.............

Jamaica Plain MY HOME TOWN_0001.wmv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ttcz3MF0b8
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby jaymac » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:09 pm

The Dropkick Murphys mighta bin betta musical accompaniment...
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby JCitron » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:30 pm

#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:I'm sorry to read about it. But not surprised. It really seemed like there was this feeling of inevitablity that the E line was going to be cut back to Heath Street Loop. But it made me wonder if Green Line service could have been restored to Arborway on a route other than South Huntington Ave, Centre and South Streets, and why that wasn't considered. Would it be feasible to run Green Line cars on the parallel Riverway, Jamaicaway and then on Arborway itself? It wouldn't be as direct as the S. Huntington/Centre/South route is, but could running on those wider roads at higher speeds and with fewer cross-streets have made up for it?


I too am saddened to here the inevitable news, but this is expected given the high number of NIMBYs that live in the area that would rather drive their cars than take a streetcar to the downtown. Some people will say the courts are fair, but I hate to say it, they are also very politically driven, and when there's a high local opposition to something, no matter how feasible or truly useful something is, they will go with the majority of the public sentiment. In this case, the NIMBYs pushed and yelled loudly. The fact is many of the newbies to the area have never ridden on, or even use public transit is part of the issue. They are usually the ones that complain the loudest about trains, subways and light rail, so there in the end, the route's reactivation was probably not going to happen anyway.

I agree why didn't they look at these alternate routes? It could be that there is a strong pro-bus control within the T management, and therefore any form of real expansion of LRV service is forgotten. Oh we may say that hey, they are expanding to Medford, but if you look at that route, it's the most convoluted out of the way route to get there. This is unlike the original lines which ran up to Union Square in Somerville then up to Medford Square.

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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby MarkB » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:45 pm

JCitron wrote:
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:I'm sorry to read about it. But not surprised. It really seemed like there was this feeling of inevitablity that the E line was going to be cut back to Heath Street Loop. But it made me wonder if Green Line service could have been restored to Arborway on a route other than South Huntington Ave, Centre and South Streets, and why that wasn't considered. Would it be feasible to run Green Line cars on the parallel Riverway, Jamaicaway and then on Arborway itself? It wouldn't be as direct as the S. Huntington/Centre/South route is, but could running on those wider roads at higher speeds and with fewer cross-streets have made up for it?


I too am saddened to here the inevitable news, but this is expected given the high number of NIMBYs that live in the area that would rather drive their cars than take a streetcar to the downtown. Some people will say the courts are fair, but I hate to say it, they are also very politically driven, and when there's a high local opposition to something, no matter how feasible or truly useful something is, they will go with the majority of the public sentiment. In this case, the NIMBYs pushed and yelled loudly. The fact is many of the newbies to the area have never ridden on, or even use public transit is part of the issue. They are usually the ones that complain the loudest about trains, subways and light rail, so there in the end, the route's reactivation was probably not going to happen anyway.



John



You couldn't be more wrong. It was a local group that was fighting for the streetcars, not local NIMBYs fighting against. The T management has been wanting to remove in-road streetcar lines since the 1940s. Buses are far more flexible, and allow traffic to move when streetcars would block the road. And bus routes can be changed overnight - streetcars can't. Their decision makes perfectly good sense. Streetcars are not magic carpets. The single read advantage is that they can go all the way in to downtown Boston. It would be nice if Jamaica Plain had a Comm. ave running through town - but it doesn't.
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby Arborway » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:37 pm

MarkB wrote: And bus routes can be changed overnight - streetcars can't.


Which is why trains spark TOD, and buses don't.
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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby JCitron » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:36 pm

MarkB wrote:
JCitron wrote:
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:I'm sorry to read about it. But not surprised. It really seemed like there was this feeling of inevitablity that the E line was going to be cut back to Heath Street Loop. But it made me wonder if Green Line service could have been restored to Arborway on a route other than South Huntington Ave, Centre and South Streets, and why that wasn't considered. Would it be feasible to run Green Line cars on the parallel Riverway, Jamaicaway and then on Arborway itself? It wouldn't be as direct as the S. Huntington/Centre/South route is, but could running on those wider roads at higher speeds and with fewer cross-streets have made up for it?


I too am saddened to here the inevitable news, but this is expected given the high number of NIMBYs that live in the area that would rather drive their cars than take a streetcar to the downtown. Some people will say the courts are fair, but I hate to say it, they are also very politically driven, and when there's a high local opposition to something, no matter how feasible or truly useful something is, they will go with the majority of the public sentiment. In this case, the NIMBYs pushed and yelled loudly. The fact is many of the newbies to the area have never ridden on, or even use public transit is part of the issue. They are usually the ones that complain the loudest about trains, subways and light rail, so there in the end, the route's reactivation was probably not going to happen anyway.



John



You couldn't be more wrong. It was a local group that was fighting for the streetcars, not local NIMBYs fighting against. The T management has been wanting to remove in-road streetcar lines since the 1940s. Buses are far more flexible, and allow traffic to move when streetcars would block the road. And bus routes can be changed overnight - streetcars can't. Their decision makes perfectly good sense. Streetcars are not magic carpets. The single read advantage is that they can go all the way in to downtown Boston. It would be nice if Jamaica Plain had a Comm. ave running through town - but it doesn't.



Mark,

I wouldn't doubt that the older locals would want the trolley, but the newbies in the area are surely there to fight it since they have no clue. Besides, it seems that when there's a fight like this, many NIMBYs from around the surrounding area gang up and push the agenda to get their way. Plaistow is going through this now with the new park & ride T station. Why is Atkinson involved in this? NIMBYs don't want the trains parking there due to noise, etc.

Yes buses are more flexible, but they hold fewer people. Even the extended buses hold fewer people than a two or three-car trolley train. The T management has been against the revitalization since they took the line out of service wth the Watertown line. In road tracks don't seem to be a problem elsewhere in the world where they still exist, except for the T.

Now that the line is dead, people will wish it was there some decades later, and we'll have to spend our tax money to reopen a convoluted route to JP just like they're building or planning now for Medford.

I'm not against progress, but I tend to find the T to be very shortsighted when it comes to infrastructure. Think Woburn Branch, Marblehead (before the T, but still). Alweife to Hanscom, Saugus branch, etc. I could go on. These maybe heavy rail/steam road, but still they could be repurposed for light rail.

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Re: Light rail to Arborway officially dead

Postby 3rdrail » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:45 pm

Seriously, I wonder if there would be a way to sell a slice of a bit off the Emerald Necklace, the Riverway/Jamaicaway/Arborway for a new Arborway streetcar line ? Advertise it to showcase the area ? It would make a pretty good substitute, there's plenty of room, it would serve the old area, not be a traffic blocker, not be on the street but on it's own private reservation instead, and would in fact run in a highly scenic, beautiful area. Perhaps three stone arched walkway overpasses to even further enhance the area and to promote safe and unobstrusive pedestrian crossings. I know that it's highly unlikely, but I wonder.
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