Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby SM89 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:31 am

Extra trips have been added over the past year or so to the line. Is there any data for the increase (hopefully) in passengers that they resulted in? And do they have projections for what these 7 upcoming extra trips will do?
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby The EGE » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:18 am

I would expect some quite good things.

The article suggests we'll see different service patterns, including a Worcester express. The current westbound schedule for the Lake Shore Limited is 63 minutes between South Station and Worcester, including station stops at Framingham and Back Bay. The T should be able to run 60-minute-or-less eastbounds, especially if they skip Framingham. Then they should advertise the hell out of that - it's literally as fast as driving even in good conditions. Swap slots and give it the 7:30 departure from Worcester - catch all the folks who want to sleep to a reasonable time and still get to work downtown at 9.

Or run local to Ashland, then express to Yawkey. You can run a 75-minute schedule on that, maybe even 70 once we see some stuff like two tracks restored through Beacon Park. If they want the west-of-Framingham stops to live up to their full potential, then they need to have true expresses, not trains that still stop at Framingham, West Natick, and Natick.

If they play it smart with their trips, adding expresses and not just locals, they can get a lot more ridership out of this line. The Pike is awful; the T should milk that for all it's worth.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby braves » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:16 pm

Has anyone heard on when the new schedule change will go into effect and what the new train schedule will be like.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby Amtrak7 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:59 pm

The EGE wrote:The T should be able to run 60-minute-or-less eastbounds, especially if they skip Framingham. Then they should advertise the hell out of that - it's literally as fast as driving even in good conditions. Swap slots and give it the 7:30 departure from Worcester - catch all the folks who want to sleep to a reasonable time and still get to work downtown at 9.


That reminds me of the experiment of 57-59 minute LIRR Ronkonkoma Rockets back when the line was electrified 25 years ago. OTP was so bad and it caused such a parking problem that stops and time were added and never removed since.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby Komarovsky » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:05 am

All of the stations west of Framingham have large parking lots that usually aren't even close to full, so I doubt parking would be too big of a problem. Dwell at each station might be an issue though, since only Worcester has a full high level platform.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:28 am

Komarovsky wrote:All of the stations west of Framingham have large parking lots that usually aren't even close to full, so I doubt parking would be too big of a problem. Dwell at each station might be an issue though, since only Worcester has a full high level platform.


Not much longer if the T wants to act on it. After Beacon Park closes all east-of-Framingham stations cease being on a freight clearance route. Yawkey is being raised. Back Bay and West Natick can be raised. And the other 7 are non-ADA anyway, with the 3 in Newton needing full rebuilds so they're accessible from both tracks. It would be an expensive proposition, but all of them could be raised...and at least 7 out of 10 are high-priority raises because of the ADA situation. If they wanted to, they could.

Framingham, too. They really should drop a freight passing track behind the station so CSX doesn't have to crawl through the platform when it's heading out to Everett or Walpole. And Amtrak will probably want highs for the resumption of Inland Regionals.

Theoretically, they could reduce the entire line to just 4 mini-highs on the freight clearance route and go full-high everywhere else. And use the automatic door coaches on Framingham short-turns. Either way an ADA backlog that staggering is going to require a lot more of them than they've got now.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby obienick » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:34 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
Komarovsky wrote:All of the stations west of Framingham have large parking lots that usually aren't even close to full, so I doubt parking would be too big of a problem. Dwell at each station might be an issue though, since only Worcester has a full high level platform.


Not much longer if the T wants to act on it. After Beacon Park closes all east-of-Framingham stations cease being on a freight clearance route. Yawkey is being raised. Back Bay and West Natick can be raised. And the other 7 are non-ADA anyway, with the 3 in Newton needing full rebuilds so they're accessible from both tracks. It would be an expensive proposition, but all of them could be raised...and at least 7 out of 10 are high-priority raises because of the ADA situation. If they wanted to, they could.

Framingham, too. They really should drop a freight passing track behind the station so CSX doesn't have to crawl through the platform when it's heading out to Everett or Walpole. And Amtrak will probably want highs for the resumption of Inland Regionals.

Theoretically, they could reduce the entire line to just 4 mini-highs on the freight clearance route and go full-high everywhere else. And use the automatic door coaches on Framingham short-turns. Either way an ADA backlog that staggering is going to require a lot more of them than they've got now.


There will still be freight traffic and as such they will have to keep it open for extradimentional loads. With the drop in traffic, there's no reason why one track can be upgraded (solid cement platform edges) and the other can fit these dimensions (foam breakaways & collapsable platform edges).
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:28 pm

obienick wrote:
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
Komarovsky wrote:All of the stations west of Framingham have large parking lots that usually aren't even close to full, so I doubt parking would be too big of a problem. Dwell at each station might be an issue though, since only Worcester has a full high level platform.


Not much longer if the T wants to act on it. After Beacon Park closes all east-of-Framingham stations cease being on a freight clearance route. Yawkey is being raised. Back Bay and West Natick can be raised. And the other 7 are non-ADA anyway, with the 3 in Newton needing full rebuilds so they're accessible from both tracks. It would be an expensive proposition, but all of them could be raised...and at least 7 out of 10 are high-priority raises because of the ADA situation. If they wanted to, they could.

Framingham, too. They really should drop a freight passing track behind the station so CSX doesn't have to crawl through the platform when it's heading out to Everett or Walpole. And Amtrak will probably want highs for the resumption of Inland Regionals.

Theoretically, they could reduce the entire line to just 4 mini-highs on the freight clearance route and go full-high everywhere else. And use the automatic door coaches on Framingham short-turns. Either way an ADA backlog that staggering is going to require a lot more of them than they've got now.


There will still be freight traffic and as such they will have to keep it open for extradimentional loads. With the drop in traffic, there's no reason why one track can be upgraded (solid cement platform edges) and the other can fit these dimensions (foam breakaways & collapsable platform edges).


Not east of Framingham. That freight traffic drops to just the daily produce train round-trip to Everett after Beacon Park closes. Produce train not having any wide loads. And there are rumors CSX might be willing to sell that run to Pan Am and get off the northside and east-of-Framingham entirely, if somebody makes it worth their while.

Grafton, Westborough, Southborough, and Ashland of course remain on the clearance route and can only be mini-highs unless modified with a passing track. Framingham too, unless they want to drop in the passing track behind the station (there's certainly room for it: http://goo.gl/maps/jSfwk). But they won't even be able to get wides to port of Southie after the Yawkey work is finished (not that they need to at what's going to be a primarily container port), and if they don't see value in seeking new wide-load business in Everett then there's no reason anything east of Framingham can't go high. Worcester-Framingham + Framingham-Walpole + Walpole-Readville / Walpole-Mansfield-Attleboro-Middleboro are the wide clearance routes from here on out. That means the 4 outer intermediate stations on the Worcester Line...Plimptonville (such that it is), Windsor Gardens, Norwood Central, Norwood Depot, Islington, Dedham Corporate, and Endicott on the Franklin (but not Walpole, where the freights miss the platform), and Foxboro on the Framingham Secondary are the only "mandated" mini-highs on the southside that don't have better passing options in the cards. Everything else can...or will (such as NEC re: Amtrak's requirements) go high.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby diburning » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:55 pm

Beacon Park still has, and probably will still have two freight customers after it closes. Houghton Chemical, which receives tank cars, located on the southeastern end of the yard over by the engine pit, and Romar Transportation, which receives hi-cube box cars at the building, and centerbeam flats in the parking lot, located east of the yard, accessed by a branch that begins on the northwestern end of the yard. Romar Transportation also receives containers unloaded at Beacon Park, which after the closure of Beacon Park would probably have them trucked from Westboro or Worcester.
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby frrc » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:44 am

diburning wrote:Beacon Park still has, and probably will still have two freight customers after it closes. Houghton Chemical, which receives tank cars, located on the southeastern end of the yard over by the engine pit, and Romar Transportation, which receives hi-cube box cars at the building, and centerbeam flats in the parking lot, located east of the yard, accessed by a branch that begins on the northwestern end of the yard. Romar Transportation also receives containers unloaded at Beacon Park, which after the closure of Beacon Park would probably have them trucked from Westboro or Worcester.


ROMAR is moving it's operations to Hopedale, on the Grafton and Upton. Freight will be off loaded at Hopedale, and trucked to Boston and other locations. They estimate around 60 truck loads per day in/out of Hopedale. Operations are planned to be in place by October 2012. Should make traffic on the MA pike more interesting :(



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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby MBTA1016 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:10 pm

F-line, this is the franklin line not worcester line. "That means the 4 outer intermediate stations on the Worcester Line...Plimptonville (such that it is), Windsor Gardens, Norwood Central, Norwood Depot, Islington, Dedham Corporate, and Endicott on the Franklin (but not Walpole, where the freights miss the platform), and Foxboro on the Framingham Secondary are the only "mandated" mini-highs on the southside that don't have better passing options in the cards. Everything else can...or will (such as NEC re: Amtrak's requirements) go high".
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby jonnhrr » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:50 am

Mbta fan wrote:F-line, this is the franklin line not worcester line. "That means the 4 outer intermediate stations on the Worcester Line...Plimptonville (such that it is), Windsor Gardens, Norwood Central, Norwood Depot, Islington, Dedham Corporate, and Endicott on the Franklin (but not Walpole, where the freights miss the platform), and Foxboro on the Framingham Secondary are the only "mandated" mini-highs on the southside that don't have better passing options in the cards. Everything else can...or will (such as NEC re: Amtrak's requirements) go high".


I read that as the 4 outer stations on the Worcester line PLUS the stations named on the Franklin line.

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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby MBTA1016 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:30 pm

Johnhrr I forget what the outer stations on the worcester line are, not counting Worcester obviously. :)
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby frrc » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:25 pm

Mbta fan wrote:Johnhrr I forget what the outer stations on the worcester line are, not counting Worcester obviously. :)


Ashland, Southboro, Westboro, Grafton are the other stations..
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Re: Framingham/Worcester Line Questions

Postby newpylong » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:13 pm

frrc wrote:
diburning wrote:Beacon Park still has, and probably will still have two freight customers after it closes. Houghton Chemical, which receives tank cars, located on the southeastern end of the yard over by the engine pit, and Romar Transportation, which receives hi-cube box cars at the building, and centerbeam flats in the parking lot, located east of the yard, accessed by a branch that begins on the northwestern end of the yard. Romar Transportation also receives containers unloaded at Beacon Park, which after the closure of Beacon Park would probably have them trucked from Westboro or Worcester.


ROMAR is moving it's operations to Hopedale, on the Grafton and Upton. Freight will be off loaded at Hopedale, and trucked to Boston and other locations. They estimate around 60 truck loads per day in/out of Hopedale. Operations are planned to be in place by October 2012. Should make traffic on the MA pike more interesting :(



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Ouch. Hopedale is a ways away...
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