Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:05 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
The EGE wrote:The MBTA realizes that minimizing the number of transfers is vastly important to journey time.


You mean the same MBTA that refuses to build the red-blue transfer, the same MBTA that keeps cutting the E line (forcing bus transfers), and the very same MBTA that plans on closing government center for two years?

Also the same MBTA that keeps the Hynes secondary entrance closed, rebuilt and then closed the second Arlington entrance, and then refused a developer request to open the other chinatown entrance?

The very same MBTA that said no to free signal priority in Brookline?

The same MBTA that sends the least frequent line, and ONLY the least frequent line to the very busy Lechmere bus transfer point?

It appears that the MBTA doesn't give a damn about rider travel time and inconveniences. So no, I dont buy the idea that the MBTA makes any sort of effort to minimize transfers.

Well said.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby SM89 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:03 am

BostonUrbEx wrote:
SM89 wrote:They're building an awful lot of random rooms alongside the Brattle loop and one right in the middle of the western edge of the platform. What's up with that?


The rooms on the Brattle Loop will be occupying the open space on the far side of the track, away from any egresses. Theres no need for that platform space seeing as you'd just have to cross the loop track to get out of there any way. Might as well make into storage rooms or offices.

I'm not sure what you mean about the west edge, though?


Slide 19
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby BostonUrbEx » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:43 am

SM89 wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:
SM89 wrote:They're building an awful lot of random rooms alongside the Brattle loop and one right in the middle of the western edge of the platform. What's up with that?


The rooms on the Brattle Loop will be occupying the open space on the far side of the track, away from any egresses. Theres no need for that platform space seeing as you'd just have to cross the loop track to get out of there any way. Might as well make into storage rooms or offices.

I'm not sure what you mean about the west edge, though?


Slide 19


Ohhh, where the payphone are/were? Good question...


By the way, it seems the elevators will be killing off both the Dunkin Donuts and the little snack/tourist shop. The shop on the Blue Line level, however, will get an upgrade.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:52 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:
SM89 wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:
SM89 wrote:They're building an awful lot of random rooms alongside the Brattle loop and one right in the middle of the western edge of the platform. What's up with that?


The rooms on the Brattle Loop will be occupying the open space on the far side of the track, away from any egresses. Theres no need for that platform space seeing as you'd just have to cross the loop track to get out of there any way. Might as well make into storage rooms or offices.

I'm not sure what you mean about the west edge, though?


Slide 19


Ohhh, where the payphone are/were? Good question...


By the way, it seems the elevators will be killing off both the Dunkin Donuts and the little snack/tourist shop. The shop on the Blue Line level, however, will get an upgrade.

I wonder what the employees of Dunkin and those shops will do while the station is closed?
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby SM89 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:49 pm

CircusFreakGRITZ wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:
SM89 wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:
SM89 wrote:They're building an awful lot of random rooms alongside the Brattle loop and one right in the middle of the western edge of the platform. What's up with that?


The rooms on the Brattle Loop will be occupying the open space on the far side of the track, away from any egresses. Theres no need for that platform space seeing as you'd just have to cross the loop track to get out of there any way. Might as well make into storage rooms or offices.

I'm not sure what you mean about the west edge, though?


Slide 19


Ohhh, where the payphone are/were? Good question...


By the way, it seems the elevators will be killing off both the Dunkin Donuts and the little snack/tourist shop. The shop on the Blue Line level, however, will get an upgrade.

I wonder what the employees of Dunkin and those shops will do while the station is closed?

Maybe the construction costs are so high because we're paying them for the inconvenience...
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby boblothrope » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:56 pm

jamesinclair wrote:The very same MBTA that said no to free signal priority in Brookline?


Cite?

All I heard was that the T and Brookline each blamed the other for not cooperating. I didn't see any explicit refusal by the T.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby jamesinclair » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:56 pm

boblothrope wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:The very same MBTA that said no to free signal priority in Brookline?


Cite?

All I heard was that the T and Brookline each blamed the other for not cooperating. I didn't see any explicit refusal by the T.


Brookline redid all the intersections, and set it up so the trolley could be recognized and given priority.

MBTA had to spend some money (very little) so that the signal box could receive indication that a trolley was coming. They said "it wasn't worth it".

A simple induction loop, which are about as common as lane stripes, would have done the trick, reduced trip times, and potentially saved the MBTA millions of dollars AND increased ridership. They "opted out". The globe article that reported this did ask for comment from the MBTA, and they said it wasnt worth it.

Naturally, it's the same MBTA that forces the silver line to wait for extended periods of time at a traffic light in south Boston, when theres not a car in sight using the crossing road.

And it's the same state government that forces the silver line to not use the ramp onto the highway thats RIGHT THERE but instead taken an extended detour around the waterfront district....just because.

Sometimes, it's almost like they consciously aim to lower ridership.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby CRail » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:35 am

There are still no sources cited here regarding Beacon St. signals (nor should there be!). I remember this and differently than described above. The T had their reasons and the signals don't give priority. Now, this has nothing to do with Government Center, so move on! Instead of bashing the Authority and its top officials on a private website, perhaps you should express your interest in a positive light with them. Assuming things are done for no reason and griping about it here is pointless and annoying.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby crash575 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:20 pm

I don't want to continue to the off topic discussion but here is an excerpt from the Globe that references the T's reluctance to Beacon Street signal prioritization:
The Boston Globe
Beacon gets smart lights, but T isn't along for the ride
December 2, 2007

MBTA spokesman Joe Pesaturo said the T will not invest in trolley-recognition technology until Brookline provides the MBTA with a study that demonstrates how the T stands to benefit from it.

"The T asked the town for this information more than two years ago, and the T is still waiting for a response," Pesaturo wrote in an e-mail. "The T will not make a major investment before establishing all of the facts."

According to city officials, however, the MBTA simply was not interested in purchasing trolley-recognition devices for traffic lights.

"We gave them that option early on in the design process, and they opted not to select that," said the town's director of transportation, Peter Ditto. "My guess would be probably budgetary. They said they weren't interested."
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby boblothrope » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:51 pm

jamesinclair wrote:Naturally, it's the same MBTA that forces the silver line to wait for extended periods of time at a traffic light in south Boston, when theres not a car in sight using the crossing road.


I blame Boston and MassHighway for that one. That is one of the longest lights in the city, even though D Street has very little traffic. So even without transit detction, the signal programming still makes no sense. And it wouldn't require any specialized equipment from the MBTA to detect the Silver Line -- just a standard loop detector.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby jamesinclair » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:13 pm

boblothrope wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:Naturally, it's the same MBTA that forces the silver line to wait for extended periods of time at a traffic light in south Boston, when theres not a car in sight using the crossing road.


I blame Boston and MassHighway for that one. That is one of the longest lights in the city, even though D Street has very little traffic. So even without transit detction, the signal programming still makes no sense. And it wouldn't require any specialized equipment from the MBTA to detect the Silver Line -- just a standard loop detector.


I blame MBTA because they havent called the right people (who may even work in the same building) and have it be corrected.

And if that call doesnt fix it, thats when you raise a public stink.

Instead, its been how many years?
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby SM89 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:09 am

jamesinclair wrote:
boblothrope wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:Naturally, it's the same MBTA that forces the silver line to wait for extended periods of time at a traffic light in south Boston, when theres not a car in sight using the crossing road.


I blame Boston and MassHighway for that one. That is one of the longest lights in the city, even though D Street has very little traffic. So even without transit detction, the signal programming still makes no sense. And it wouldn't require any specialized equipment from the MBTA to detect the Silver Line -- just a standard loop detector.


I blame MBTA because they havent called the right people (who may even work in the same building) and have it be corrected.

And if that call doesnt fix it, thats when you raise a public stink.

Instead, its been how many years?


Submit your suggestion using the mayor's online form http://www.cityofboston.gov/online_serv ... fault.aspx
I submit things all the time and they are always addressed rather quickly. I had the pedestrian cycle lengthened at one intersection downtown because there were no conflicting movements. They're not dumb, so if you're suggestion makes sense they'll do it.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby rhodiecub2 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:55 am

When the time comes for Government Center too close, will Boston College and Riverside trains turn around/terminate at Park Street?
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:50 pm

rhodiecub2 wrote:When the time comes for Government Center too close, will Boston College and Riverside trains turn around/terminate at Park Street?

Hopefully at least one of those lines runs to North Station to facilitate transfers to orange line then blue line for passengers traveling to Logan Airport or Revere.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby ns3010 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:55 pm

CircusFreakGRITZ wrote:
rhodiecub2 wrote:When the time comes for Government Center too close, will Boston College and Riverside trains turn around/terminate at Park Street?

Hopefully at least one of those lines runs to North Station to facilitate transfers to orange line then blue line for passengers traveling to Logan Airport or Revere.


Would it be possible for them to turn trains quickly enough at NS with two or three branches worth of cars terminating there? Obviously it's doable with only turning the C there, but is it too much to turn 2-3 times the traffic on only the two stub tracks? I know it doesn't take too long to switch car ends, but can it be done quickly enough without causing rush-hour backups? If it isn't practical to turn them at NS, they would probably just make B and D passengers transfer at Park, or possibly run the trains all the way to Lechmere.
Last edited by ns3010 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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