Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:53 am

There is no reason why the full station has to close. If this skylight dirt repository that they're building absolutely *must* disrupt the Green Line level, then it doesn't have to disrupt the Blue Line level at all. Reopen the abandoned exit first! It's not tied into the headhouse, and BL is a whole separate structural level.

And what exactly are you going to do with the Red Line when DTX has to take 100% of the Red-to-Blue passengers, Red Line has to take 100% of Green Line-Airport passengers who all have to get funneled from Park to SS/Silver, and Haymarket doesn't get enough trains to keep Green-Blue passengers from slamming DTX? Why not wear a "Please sue me again!" sign in front of the CLF building for being deadbeats on Red-Blue Connector planning. Your subway will not function with one of its Core Four transfer stations out of commission for (everybody knows it'll be more than) 3 years.

Really, guys...THINK before open mouth.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby obienick » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:17 am

Wasn't the blue line level redone when it was lengthened to 6 cars? And why can't the rebuilding of the green line platform be done incrementally like what was done at the other stations? And if they are so obsessed with replacing the headhouse, why not just build a whole new one, then tear the old one down?

And I still don't understand how the work would take THREE years to get done!!?!??!
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby sery2831 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:36 am

danib62 wrote:One positive effect of the 3 year GC shutdown would be that Bowdoin would possibly become a full time station for the first time in who knows how long (ever?). I think after having it open full time for 3 years it would be hard to bump it back down to part time.


That's like saying after having the Berkley St end of Arlington open for such a long time while the Arlington St end was under construction getting to remain open...
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Philip Wirth » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:41 pm

username wrote:does this mean that the current lines which stop there to turn around will now continue to North Station?


Presumably the project would not involve the loop, and there would no reason to use it, as it's functionality could be temporarily replaced by the Park Street loop.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Mcoov » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:09 pm

My question is: what would closing Government Center do for service north of it, particularly the Green Line Extension project? Are trains just going to blast through GC? Or will the system be split into two isolated lines, with one terminating at North Station, and the other at Park St.?
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby danib62 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:37 pm

sery2831 wrote:That's like saying after having the Berkley St end of Arlington open for such a long time while the Arlington St end was under construction getting to remain open...

Touche'

I guess that's why you're the moderator and I'm the mere poster.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Disney Guy » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:42 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:and Haymarket doesn't get enough trains to keep Green-Blue passengers from slamming DTX? .

If Haymarket can get any trains (tracks still open through Gov't Ctr.) then it can get enough trains (turning at North Station and through routed to Lechmere).
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby checkthedoorlight » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:14 pm

Isn't Govt Center's loop/layup tracks a pretty important part of the Green line's operations? Will they still be able to store trains in there?
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby sery2831 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:52 pm

The Gov't Center storage really isn't necessary, they did without storing cars there for many years. So that's really a non issue. One would assume that the B and D lines will loop at Park St, and the C and E lines will just skip Gov't Center.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby Diverging Route » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:19 pm

sery2831 wrote:The Gov't Center storage really isn't necessary, they did without storing cars there for many years. So that's really a non issue. One would assume that the B and D lines will loop at Park St, and the C and E lines will just skip Gov't Center.


if that happens, then it would make sense to swap the D & E platform stops westbound at Park, otherwise you'd have the B, D, and E on the inner track and only the C on the wall track.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby The EGE » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:04 pm

The better to see the beautiful mural...
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:19 pm

Track 1 ("The Wall") is often used as a holding track to alleviate a bunch or allow a line through with multiple trains that has previously been stalled. It might work out fine with B, D, and E on 2.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby ck4049 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:24 pm

What the MBTA should do is reopen Adams Square and build a temporary bypass tunnel(maybe even a temporary station) around Government Center(kind of like when Harvard Station was being relocated)!
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:55 pm

Wouldn't Adam's Sq have been obliterated by the Orange Line? There's always the remaining Cornhill St tunnel which could perhaps serve a clever terminus use and allow Blue Line transfers through State or something. That's alot of work though, would probably be more beneficial to just take a 3 year shutdown.
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Re: Gov't Center could close for three years beginning in 20

Postby digitalsciguy » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:46 pm

HOKAY, so...

  • The station would need to be closed to revenue service because of passenger safety (surely dictated by some OSHA stipulation) and to accelerate the construction schedule. As we all know, a protracted construction schedule inevitably increases construction costs due to inflation and the need to pad the project's budget for any unforeseen issues that may arise over a longer schedule.
  • I cannot speak to the issues with the logistics of the station geometry as far as accommodating continued revenue operation of the station, but this is a moot point if any construction at all would put passengers at risk. A lot of the construction will be heavy engineering, which is complicated by having passengers present and about on station platforms.
  • Under the proposal, trains would continue to operate through the station, but not stop.
  • I absolutely agree with a comment made by FP10 about the need for mixed use and better development on MBTA property. If the whole head house is going to be torn up, why isn't dense residential and/or commercial being built on that property to bring revenue back to the MBTA and reclaim property that dies at night? Granted, the property owners of the former Filene's Basement are having trouble even getting developers to build on the property because of the economy, but the MBTA/transport agencies are in the business of investing when the economy is down and everything is relatively cheap to seize on those deals and reap the benefits when the economy picks up and/or drive it back up. (Or at least that's how infrastructure investment is supposed to work)
  • Various 'greening' initiatives for the plaza have included planting a lot of trees to break up and green the public space while maintaining it, but many have contended it doesn't go far enough to reactivate the edges of the space (i.e. introduce human activities on the periphery, which tend to drive more human activity through the space itself), and some have suggested precisely what FP10 has said, but not enough voices spoke and it's likely too late for the MBTA to have its contractor reengineer the property around the head house without incurring millions in additional costs and protracting the already lengthy 2 year construction plan (assuming the station is to close to revenue service). A building above the head house would likely involve opening up the entire structure down to the Blue Line level and building proper foundations, something that's effectively being done right now at the World Trade Center with the (1) line being 'suspended' in mid-air with construction of the foundations of Tower 3, Tower 4, and the downtown transit hub, the transit hub corridor, and the WTC memorial being constructed all around it, but the millions of dollars for that construction are being covered by multitudes of federal grants, capital budgets, and private monies afforded that particular construction... thingamajig.
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