3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby sery2831 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:21 am

They ran 3 car Type 8 trains on the Riverside Line for a short time. This was before they were banned and could train line with Type 7s. I have photographs of it in my print collection. I want to say it was during some sort of outage where the cars were used as shuttle service on that line.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby diburning » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:17 pm

Do you have any photos of the computer console from a 3-car type 8 set?

I ask because the console on the type 8s show the door status (amongst other things) for each car that's trainlined. The same console in the type 7s show that a car is trainlined, but does not have a door status indicatior (it's just a blank car on the console). Looking at that console, from the size of the figures, it looked like it was never meant to be used with more than 2 cars (the display for 2 cars on the console take up almost the whole screen).

But I guess the figures probably shrink to fit the screen when a 3-car train is hooked together.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:19 am

diburning wrote:Do you have any photos of the computer console from a 3-car type 8 set?

I ask because the console on the type 8s show the door status (amongst other things) for each car that's trainlined. The same console in the type 7s show that a car is trainlined, but does not have a door status indicatior (it's just a blank car on the console). Looking at that console, from the size of the figures, it looked like it was never meant to be used with more than 2 cars (the display for 2 cars on the console take up almost the whole screen).

But I guess the figures probably shrink to fit the screen when a 3-car train is hooked together.

I noticed the same thing, at least in the type 8's. The computer only has door statuses if the other car is another type 8, otherwise its just an empty box.

The type 7's have computer displays? Makes sense but I've never seen em. Hmm.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby sery2831 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Sorry, no picture of the operators display, only pictures of the 3 car sets operating.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:37 pm

sery2831 wrote:Sorry, no picture of the operators display, only pictures of the 3 car sets operating.

I couldn't find pictures of 3-car ops anywhere on your smugmug photo album, do you have a direct link?
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:41 pm

sery2831 wrote:From NE Transit:
Peak vehicle requirement for Green Line is 150 cars (20 two-car trains for Commonwealth, 14 two-car trains for Beacon, 21 two-car trains for Highland branch, 17 two-car trains for Huntington Ave., and 3 two-car run as directed trains )
There are over 180 active cars. With 20/25 in maintenance several 3 car trains car be operated. Traditionally only the D Line has operated 3 car trains.


They did that "summer of 3's" on the B-line several years ago as a headway-management experiment, using 3-cars all the time except well off-peak and trading slightly longer headways for higher capacity to keep the subway from getting FUBAR'd by all the blown B schedules throwing traffic management off. I don't recall what the official verdict was, but I thought the whole subway ran just slightly more efficiently during that trial. Definitely a lot fewer Park short-turns at rush hour.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby FFolz » Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:32 pm

jamesinclair wrote:The only thing keeping an operator in the 2nd car is the union. Everybody would be better served if that person were still employed, but moved around the car checking payment (and issuing fines)


Imo it would be better for the union too because there is a direct connection between revenue and payroll (just look at CTA's troubles). However, management may be of the opinion that "glorified meter maid" is a lower pay class than "door opener". Clearly they are going to have to come to an agreement on that.

Again imo, a revenue collector is worth every penny. They are indeed in physical danger, must be conscientious/above reproach, and being a licensed vehicle operator is probably good too to back up the lead operator should anything happen. Management seeing it this way is a pipe dream, however, as payroll has been Enemy #1 since the early days of traction.

This paying customer however (taking my union hat off) absolutely hates the idea of other people jumping the stiles when I've paid full fare at no little inconvenience to myself (#$@! charliecard machine!!). Proof of payment? BRING IT ON.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby GP40MC 1116 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:59 pm

Although this isn't specific to 3 Car Green Line train discussion, try this one on for size....

This afternoon around 3:00PM I was at Park Street waiting for a Riverside train when I looked over at Track 3. Now, it is not unusual sometimes to see a duce short turn on Track 3 and loop to head back out on one of the branch lines. However, this caught me by surprise as I saw a 4 CAR set sitting on Track 3. it started with a Type 7, then sandwiched in the middle by 2 Type 8's and finally trailed by another Type 7. So just to make sure I wasn't seeing things I walked up the length of the platform and viewed each coupler and believe it or not everything was hitched together. If by chance this was just 2, two car trains laying over very close, but in my view it looked as if they were all hooked up together.

Here is a picture from my Blackberry (I wasn't able to get all 4 cars in view) But you can clearly see in the far left the first Type 8, then 3829 (middle) and finally the Type 7 on the end.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby diburning » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:26 am

Hmm, will the signalling system allow for a 4-car set? Perhaps one set was having problems and the other set was towing it somewhere else?
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby MBTA3247 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:16 am

diburning wrote:Hmm, will the signalling system allow for a 4-car set?

The signaling system won't care. It has to deal with multiple consecutive occupied blocks all the time. It doesn't matter if that's because of two closely-spaced trains or one really long train.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby sery2831 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:43 am

The signal system is pretty much protecting the rear of the train, so the size of the train should not effect the system.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby chief examiner » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:25 am

T7's do not have the display but have a "multiplex" (MOD) and can send info to the coupled 8's (no more than 3 vehicles in a consist will be visible on the display but up to four may be coupled).
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby ck4049 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:34 pm

I wonder if the Type 9s will have the same 3-car capability and "advanced equipment". :wink:
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:18 pm

ck4049 wrote:I wonder if the Type 9s will have the same 3-car capability and "advanced equipment". :wink:


I don't see why not. Everything back to I think the PCC's has had 3-car MU'ing capability, and the Type 9's will have to be electrically compatible with trainlining with Type 7's or 8's because it's not going to be a large enough car order in itself for it to be practical to isolate them. Although I doubt you'll be seeing 7-8-9 consists as that's just inviting glitchy connections with 3 makes in one consist.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby Disney Guy » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:13 pm

The Type 7's had to trainline in mixed consists so there could be a handicapped accessible car in every consist. So long as there are enough Type 8's there is no compelling need for type 9's to trainline with others.
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