3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby jamesinclair » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:18 pm

diburning wrote:Each car also requires an operator on street level to ensure the collection of fares.


Yeah, not exactly. Considering pass commuters are encouraged to board in the rear, and all commuters MUST during rush hour (if they want to get on), "ensuring the collection of fares" hasnt happened since 2006 when the MBTA decided that all doors should be opened above ground.

The only thing keeping an operator in the 2nd car is the union. Everybody would be better served if that person were still employed, but moved around the car checking payment (and issuing fines)
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby diburning » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:32 pm

StevieC48 wrote:Get your facts straight diburning the Type 8 have a door set up switch simular to a rapid transit train, so they can run the train with 1 operator and the doors will be operated by the same. Not sure if they retrofitted the Type 7 with this feature. Any questons refere to the #8 Operators Manual, Breda.


Blah I was thinking of the type 7s when I typed that.

I don't know if they retrofitted the type 7s to be able to work that way. On the type 7s, even if the doors are closed, the operator sometimes presses the close door button which makes a clicking sound in the doors that the button operates. Altough some operators do it with the type 8s as well, the clicking noise is not present.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby StevieC48 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:36 pm

No problem dibrung we all make typing errors. I am a frequent violater of that. ;).
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby GP40MC 1116 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:51 pm

diburning wrote:Blah I was thinking of the type 7s when I typed that.

I don't know if they retrofitted the type 7s to be able to work that way. On the type 7s, even if the doors are closed, the operator sometimes presses the close door button which makes a clicking sound in the doors that the button operates. Altough some operators do it with the type 8s as well, the clicking noise is not present.


The clicking sound is just the operator pressing the appropriate door close button so he or she can get "Doors Closed" to activate on the dashboard. Then they are able to proceed.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby CRail » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:00 am

There are relays in the door compartments, this is the clicking being referred to.
obienick wrote:Don't you mean to keep the union fat and happy?

There are a number of operational and safety issues which require an operator in every car, this practice is not for the purpose of satisfying the unions. If they're running 6 car subway trains with one person, what makes the Green Line any different?

Fare collection is one reason. Sure there is all this talk about a POP system, but no Bostonian is dumb enough to fall for that, we all know it wouldn't be enforced.

One point used to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby jamesinclair » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:51 am

CRail wrote:There are relays in the door compartments, this is the clicking being referred to.
obienick wrote:Don't you mean to keep the union fat and happy?

There are a number of operational and safety issues which require an operator in every car, this practice is not for the purpose of satisfying the unions. If they're running 6 car subway trains with one person, what makes the Green Line any different?
.


It doesnt, thats exactly why it's a union issue.


"
CRail wrote:One point used to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.


Id like to see someone try to change green line cars in mid trip.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby MBTA3247 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:47 am

jamesinclair wrote:"
CRail wrote:One point used to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.


Id like to see someone try to change green line cars in mid trip.

I believe he meant people crossing the tracks by stepping over the couplers between the cars.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby danib62 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:15 am

CRail wrote:One point used to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.

As someone who lived on the green line for 23 years (the B and C lines) I can't remember ever seeing anyone ever try to do this. I've certainly thought about it but never actually tried it. That's not to say this never happens but it's a huge exaggeration to say that this happens often.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby Diverging Route » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:46 am

San Francisco's MUNI has been running three-car trains (formerly Boeing LRVs and now Bredas) successfully in both the subway and in street running for years. Operators are in the first car only. They use POP (proof-of-payment); if you are paying a fare in cash on the surface then you must board the first car. The doors are train-lined so that they are opened and closed by the operator in the first car.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby jamesinclair » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:56 pm

MBTA3247 wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:"
CRail wrote:One point used to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.


Id like to see someone try to change green line cars in mid trip.

I believe he meant people crossing the tracks by stepping over the couplers between the cars.


That would make more sense, but why would anybody do this? I've never seen anybody try, and outside of park street, it's impossible, as most stations have a fence on the outside of the track.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby TrainManTy » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:58 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
MBTA3247 wrote:
jamesinclair wrote:
Id like to see someone try to change green line cars in mid trip.

I believe he meant people crossing the tracks by stepping over the couplers between the cars.


That would make more sense, but why would anybody do this? I've never seen anybody try, and outside of park street, it's impossible, as most stations have a fence on the outside of the track.


I've seen trains stop for road traffic or other causes blocking the pedestrian walkways/crosswalks at either end of the stations on the B and E branches (haven't ridden the C yet). I saw two joggers who, if the train had stayed there for ten more minutes, probably would have climbed over the couplers.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby CRail » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:48 am

danib62 wrote:As someone who lived on the green line for 23 years (the B and C lines) I can't remember ever seeing anyone ever try to do this. I've certainly thought about it but never actually tried it. That's not to say this never happens but it's a huge exaggeration to say that this happens often.


Read what I said, I never claimed that it happens!

This was the point used to protect the trailer, which is exactly what I stated. It doesn't say anywhere in my post how often it happens, or even that it does. Don't challenge my point if you don't even know what it is.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby danib62 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:03 am

CRail wrote:Read what I said, I never claimed that it happens!

This was the point used to protect the trailer, which is exactly what I stated. It doesn't say anywhere in my post how often it happens, or even that it does. Don't challenge my point if you don't even know what it is.

Then what does the following quote mean? (emphasis added)

CRail wrote:One point used to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.
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Re: 3 Car Green Line Train Discussion

Postby BostonUrbEx » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:16 am

BTW, just confirming that one side of Copley, the westbound side, is indeed fully open now, and 3 cars would very easily fit.

The eastbound platform is still pretty small, not sure if you could squeeze in 3 or not, it could probably be done as you don't have a door on the back right corner so it would be sticking into the tunnel past the last door.
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Re: I saw a 3-car train?

Postby CRail » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:00 pm

Emphasis adjusted:
CRail wrote:One point used [as in NOT BY ME] to protect the trailer is that people often try to cross between cars. Not having a person to monitor each car could pose a threat of someone being injured or killed by doing so.



Like I've already explained, I am not the person making this claim. It was an argument made by green line personnel who haven't lived near the line for 20 years, they've operated on the line every day for anywhere up to 30 years or more! Plus, regardless to the extent of its truth, that is what they said.

Once again Dani, we are dwelling on a subject that is not the purpose of this topic. Stop focusing on challenging every point I make, and start focusing on discussing the topic at hand.
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