Silver Line Thread/Tracker

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Silver Line Thread/Tracker

Postby CS » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:45 am

This thread is dedicated to BRT discussion. This is NOT a bash the silver line thread.
Southampton St. Garage–82 buses (76 Neoplan and 6 New Flyer)
(garage located at 230 Southampton St. Boston)
44 2003 Neoplan articulated CNG: 1001-1044 (1001-1017 for Silver Line Washington St., 1018-1044 for Route 39 and Route 504)
32 2004/5 Neoplan articulated dual-modes: 1101-1132 (1125-1132 are funded by Massport., 1112 at Evewrett for accident repair)
6 2001 New Flyer CNG: 6011-6016 (6011, 6014, and 6016 for Routes 39 and 504; 6012, 6013, and 6015 for evening Silver Line Washington St. service)

Used with permission from J.Belcher from NETransit
Last edited by CS on Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lets bash it

Postby jumbotusk » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:28 pm

when does it open from downtown to logan?

and where do buses enter the tunnel on the west that is about to open at south station?
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Postby jwhite07 » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:35 pm

Initial transitway service (to begin sometime in early 2005) will be between South Station and the World Trade Center only. Service to Logan Airport will not begin until the dual mode buses are delivered and accepted.

The tunnel portal is just off D Street in South Boston, near the World Trade Center and the new Boston Convention and Exhibition Center.
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Postby Ron Newman » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:28 pm

Thanks for creating this thread, CS.

As far as I know, there is no western portal for the Silver Line tunnel, just a loop. If I'm wrong, someone please post here.

We've slipped to 2005 now? I had heard late 2004.
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Postby octr202 » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:36 pm

Thanks CS. BRT may be evil, but it looks like we're stuck with it. I hope we can have a good discussion about how it becomes, for better or worse, part of our transit system.

Ron -- to my knowledge there's no western portal. While there is a lot of construction there, I can't imagine where in the South Station vicinity there'd be a space to have it. Besides, assuming that Phase III gets built, there's no need for it.
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Postby trigonalmayhem » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:23 pm

I sincerely hope phase III doesn't get built, though. It would be a collossal waste of time and money, and they'd end up tearing downtown up again after they just got done fixing it with the big dig finishing.
There are other projects that they should really look into completing first (cough green line extention to west medford cough urban ring cough)

I'd rather see them at least convert the dudley square branch to LRT, anyway.

It seems that the South Boston Transitway is probably better suited by bus service since trolleys will never be allowed into the TWT to the airport. The line is really too short to justify anything other than buses unless it's linked up with the other side.
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Postby Robert Paniagua » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:27 am

From CharlieMTA in a killed thread:

The link below is the latest on the proposed Green Line Extension to Somerville and West Medford. As expected, the MBTA is reneging on this project, leaning instead towards BRT.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/10/29/in_somerville_they_want_to_catch_trolley/
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Postby trigonalmayhem » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:57 am

Oh how completely asinine.
Leave it to to the T to want to cut every corner possible.

And Romney thinks the Urban Ring is a more important project?

Give me a break, that's just more BRT babble! It wouldn't even involve rail service until Phase III, which is something like 15-20 years off by their estimates. That part of Somerville badly needs some better transit service, and BRT without a grade seperated right of way is a complete joke (no one respects bus lanes, and the police certainly don't seem to enforce it).
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Postby Ron Newman » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:03 pm

To be fair, the proposal is for BRT alongside the Lowell Line commuter rail tracks, so it would be grade-separated. It's still not a good idea, since passengers would have to transfer between BRT and the Green Line at Lechmere.
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Postby FatNoah » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:20 pm

BRT instead of Light Rail for the Medford extension is just silly. It can be somewhat justifiable for the Silver Line because many riders are trying to get downtown. How many people in Somerville/Medford would have Lechmere as their ultimate destination?

*sigh* What is the fascination the T has with BRT? Speaking of which, has the T released any figures on how much faster the Silver LIne is than the bus it replaced?
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Postby Ron Newman » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:32 pm

Presumably the other advantage of BRT is that the express buses could distribute onto local streets at West Medford (and maybe elsewhere if there are other access points).
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Postby trigonalmayhem » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:24 pm

But BRT will never have the capacity of light rail, especially operating in 2 or 3 car trains. Even if they throw segmented buses at the line, those only hold so many people Plus nobody wants to wait for the next bus, even if it's coming in less than a minute. At least with multiple-car trains you have multiple boarding locations so it keeps them at least closer to being on schedule, rather than ending up with a bunch of busses leapfrogging one another and getting bunched up ... plus on a BRT route wouldn't they not even be able to leapfrog? Then it would just end up with an incredibly full bus followed closely by a bunch of empty ones.

I'm sure BRT has a niche somewhere, but the somerville extension is NOT it.
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Postby octr202 » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:29 pm

Okay, before we all get too distraught over seeing "Son of Silver Line" worming into Somerville and Medford...

Remember that the GL extension is in the early planning stages. Applying to the FTA for new Starts money requires a rather extensive study of all possible options. By studying BRT and "improved bus" service (the TSM, or Transportation Systems Management option*), the T will ensure that final proposal submitted to FTA passes muster. If the study concluded from the start that light rail is it, end of discussion, the Feds would simply reject the proposal, and then we'd be no where. The federal process requires authorities to look at and evaluate all possible alternatives -- BRT is certainly doable on that corridor, but its doubtful that there is a way to make it the best option. By including it now, the T will be able to make the case that light rail would perform better than BRT.

In my opinion, the Globe article did a poor job of describing the planning process to the reader, although its not the simpliest thing to present to those not familiar with transit funding and planning.

*TSM is essentially the little or no capital option that must be looked at in any New Starts application. Its a base line comparison, assuming that buses are used as effectively as possible, used to measure the impact of the capital spending on system performance.
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Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:33 pm

what does BRT stand for?
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Postby Ron Newman » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:52 pm

Bus Rapid Transit -- limited-stop buses on dedicated roadways, usually grade-separated from other motor traffic (as they would be here).
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