Green Line Type 9 Thread

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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby djimpact1 » Thu May 15, 2014 2:19 pm

The more I look at the rendering, the more the paint scheme appears as an off-shoot of trains CAF built for CPTM in Brazil. (Read as having similarities, not necessarily similar!)
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MBTA Green Line - Type 9 rendering via Boston Magazine (5-14-2014).jpg
CPTM trains by CAF.jpg
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby RailBus63 » Fri May 16, 2014 11:20 am

The front door appears to be for passengers - it's at the same height as the side doors.

As someone else noted, it's essentially the Type 8 design in fancy dress.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby bostontrainguy » Fri May 16, 2014 11:35 am

That has to be a passenger door due to the way the Greenline operates. However, a single plug door is an interesting option. The MBTA hasn't had plug doors since the original Boeing LRVs which were later converted to folding doors due to problems.

The present Type 8 configuration requires a bridgeplate and outward folding doors. The good old-fashioned outward-folding doors are problematic since they often get stuck on the platforms. Also the existing slide-out bridgeplates are very temperamental and the cause of many delays.

Don't know if this design eliminates the slide-out bridgeplate, but perhaps now the trolley floor and the platform might be at the same height with the plug doors which would make these cars much more trouble-free than the Type 8s.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Fri May 16, 2014 12:48 pm

RailBus63 wrote:As someone else noted, it's essentially the Type 8 design in fancy dress.


It sure is, right down to that pesky center articulation, track-jumping low-floor trailer bogie and all!

Lets hope they've got those wheel profiles down pat this time...
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby MBTA3247 » Fri May 16, 2014 2:14 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:That has to be a passenger door due to the way the Greenline operates. However, a single plug door is an interesting option. The MBTA hasn't had plug doors since the original Boeing LRVs which were later converted to folding doors due to problems.

The plug doors on the Boeings were a problem because Boeing's engineers were idiots who decided to design the doors from scratch instead of licensing an existing design, and failed miserably. Presumably whatever design CAF is using has actually been proven in service.

The good old-fashioned outward-folding doors are problematic since they often get stuck on the platforms.

I've never heard of folding doors getting caught on platforms.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Fri May 16, 2014 5:39 pm

MBTA3247 wrote:I've never heard of folding doors getting caught on platforms.


I have seen this a few times. Especially at Copley and with the 8's. When it happens, a bunch of T staff try to push the car while the operator closes the door. Its quite the sight.
Last edited by Adams_Umass_Boston on Sat May 17, 2014 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby bostontrainguy » Sat May 17, 2014 12:27 am

MBTA3247 wrote:
bostontrainguy wrote:That has to be a passenger door due to the way the Greenline operates. However, a single plug door is an interesting option. The MBTA hasn't had plug doors since the original Boeing LRVs which were later converted to folding doors due to problems.

The plug doors on the Boeings were a problem because Boeing's engineers were idiots who decided to design the doors from scratch instead of licensing an existing design, and failed miserably. Presumably whatever design CAF is using has actually been proven in service.

The good old-fashioned outward-folding doors are problematic since they often get stuck on the platforms.

I've never heard of folding doors getting caught on platforms.


Happens every day multiple times.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby diburning » Sat May 24, 2014 2:48 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:
RailBus63 wrote:As someone else noted, it's essentially the Type 8 design in fancy dress.


It sure is, right down to that pesky center articulation, track-jumping low-floor trailer bogie and all!

Lets hope they've got those wheel profiles down pat this time...


That center articulation is proven technology that works fine in other vehicles. Breda probably screwed it up.

Example: San Diego MTS's Siemens S70s have this mid-section, and we don't hear about derailment problem pertaining to it. San Diego MTS's S70s are essentially full-length low floor (with ramps instead of stairs over the front and rear trucks) but they use POP without on-vehicle fareboxes so they don't have end doors.

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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby bostontrainguy » Tue May 12, 2015 9:54 am

diburning wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:
RailBus63 wrote:As someone else noted, it's essentially the Type 8 design in fancy dress.


It sure is, right down to that pesky center articulation, track-jumping low-floor trailer bogie and all!

Lets hope they've got those wheel profiles down pat this time...


That center articulation is proven technology that works fine in other vehicles. Breda probably screwed it up.



Breda claimed it was the T's crappy track. Take a ride on the Greenline sometime and you might just agree :)
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Tue May 12, 2015 2:02 pm

bostontrainguy wrote:
diburning wrote:
Bramdeisroberts wrote:
RailBus63 wrote:As someone else noted, it's essentially the Type 8 design in fancy dress.


It sure is, right down to that pesky center articulation, track-jumping low-floor trailer bogie and all!

Lets hope they've got those wheel profiles down pat this time...


That center articulation is proven technology that works fine in other vehicles. Breda probably screwed it up.



Breda claimed it was the T's crappy track. Take a ride on the Greenline sometime and you might just agree :)


The T did so much rail replacement and a more or less systemwide rail grinding in mitigation to try keep the things from continually falling off the tracks in those early years that the only leg Breda's got to stand on making that claim is. . .

Image

"terra firma"


Ride quality's probably gotten worse systemwide in the dozen-plus years since from deferred maintenance, but that arduous 5 years of Type 8 debugging produced the best track the Green Line had in generations.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby BandA » Tue May 12, 2015 6:33 pm

If I were the "T" I would hold on to the type 7's as long as possible. The low floor layout of the type 8's are really awkward. In fact they should have built the GLX as the Orange Line Branch instead so that they could have avoided ordering the type 9's. Which brings up the question, how does the price of the type 9's compare with the Red Chinese subway cars?
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Tue May 12, 2015 7:16 pm

BandA wrote:Which brings up the question, how does the price of the type 9's compare with the Red Chinese subway cars?


Depends on whether the T decided to order the combo or not.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby Gerry6309 » Tue May 12, 2015 8:19 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Breda claimed it was the T's crappy track. Take a ride on the Greenline sometime and you might just agree :)

The T did so much rail replacement and a more or less systemwide rail grinding in mitigation to try keep the things from continually falling off the tracks in those early years that the only leg Breda's got to stand on making that claim is. . .


Ride quality's probably gotten worse systemwide in the dozen-plus years since from deferred maintenance, but that arduous 5 years of Type 8 debugging produced the best track the Green Line had in generations.


A Type 4 would run on anything 4' 8.5"" apart with a decent ground return.

Type 5s and PCCs would pick square joints.

LRVs would pick good joints.

Type 7s would turn over the rails.

Type 8s would climb out of the oppressive 1435 mm without other urging.

Type 9s ??

Nobody has ever derailed a Type 6 :)
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby Disney Guy » Wed May 13, 2015 10:46 am

The rounded ends of the proposed Type 9 look like a waste of space. The operator's cab has to be set back a little further compared with a Type 7 or Type 8 meaning less floor area for passengers.
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Re: Green Line Type 9 Thread

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Wed May 13, 2015 11:49 am

Disney Guy wrote:The rounded ends of the proposed Type 9 look like a waste of space. The operator's cab has to be set back a little further compared with a Type 7 or Type 8 meaning less floor area for passengers.


But they NEED those sexy aerodynamics for when they're rocketing through the central subway at 10mph during rush hour! Wait, what?

Say what you will about the underlying mechanicals of the Type 8's, but their Pininfarina-penned carbodies made for a fantastic use of space, while being 100% honest about the conditions they'd be operating in.
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