Blue Line Extension ROW

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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby Arborwayfan » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:16 am

If everything to 128 or even further were one city (Houston-style), you might get more rapid transit and less CR. As it is, the various suburban and semi-suburban cities and towns (like Needham, Newton, Waltham, Westwood, etc.) have much more interest in CR than in rapid transit, so there are a bunch of city/town governments pushing for CR, and just a few city gov't pushing for rapid transit (Boston, Brookline, Somerville, Quincy, Revere, Braintree, Milton, Malden... as I list them I'm not sure my math works out, but I still think it's possible that a big city might have been even more into RT than greater Bosto in already). At least we have one agency doing CR and RT. Compare to Chicago, where CTA and Metra are separate agencies, and where the suburbs get a lot of state funding for Metra -- very classy CR -- while the CTA has trouble getting enough money to run trains that serve more people (at least in terms of pax miles per trip, population density, etc.)
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby newpylong » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:18 am

Agreed. Boston is fairly unique in that you have the City core surrounded by Suburbs with Satellite Cities (Waltham, Woburn, Lowell, Quincy, etc) spaced out to like 495 in all directions. If Boston was like Dallas, Houston or Phoenix in that it was 500 sq miles then I am sure we would have more rapid transit. But having a city core less than 100 sq miles and a hodge podge of suburbs and satellite cities makes Commuter Rail more preferred.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby bluelinetolynn » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:33 pm

I wonder in the next 100 years how greater boston will change. I mean if anything will happen as far as changing commuter rail into a rapid commuter system with dmu's or emu's and or if metro boston will grow stronger as a regional government to help this happen. i think the problem with that is that new england has it in it's DNA for everyone to have there own independent co ntrol of local government the strong local rule laws and all, I would love to see us as a region form a stronger united government to help us stop fighting over transit projects...


Another question??? why and how is it that DC has been able to grow there rapid transit so much so fast and keep doing so when our government is broke? i dont understand the mbta cant even get the green line project built in twenty years or more but DC metro just keeps growing so fast???
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby 3rdrail » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:17 pm

bluelinetolynn wrote:I wonder if Boston had been expanded into one mega city all the way out to 128 loop 100 years ago that it would be alot easier for everett chelsea Lynn saugus all to get rapid transit projects pushed through. I would think so because you would have one city hall pushing for all these neighborhood projects instead of several different cities all fighting for there own projects like somerville wanting the green-line extension and lynn wanting the blue line ..
Well, yeah....but it's all relative. Then you'd be asking if a city that covered half of Massachusetts would have been better covering the whole state. As far as reality goes, this is the make-up of things in relation to importance in Massachusetts. Boston - 75 %, Cambridge - 10 %, Brookline - 5 %, the Cape - 4 %, Quincy/Revere/Hull - a combined 4 %, all the other cities and towns - a combined 2 %.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby BostonUrbEx » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:11 pm

I don't see how it would matter seeing as I rarely see Boston's leaders (Menino) championing transit projects. It's all about the reps.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby Elcamo » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:27 am

bluelinetolynn wrote:I wonder in the next 100 years how greater boston will change. I mean if anything will happen as far as changing commuter rail into a rapid commuter system with dmu's or emu's and or if metro boston will grow stronger as a regional government to help this happen. i think the problem with that is that new england has it in it's DNA for everyone to have there own independent co ntrol of local government the strong local rule laws and all, I would love to see us as a region form a stronger united government to help us stop fighting over transit projects...


Another question??? why and how is it that DC has been able to grow there rapid transit so much so fast and keep doing so when our government is broke? i dont understand the mbta cant even get the green line project built in twenty years or more but DC metro just keeps growing so fast???


DC isn't completely run by the federal government, it just gets a lot more attention and taxpayer money than Boston. DC also didn't have a big dig going on for the last billion years.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby Elcamo » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:38 am

Expanding Boston to 128 would be stupid for at least the next 100 years assuming everything continues to progress the way it has been. It would make more sense for elected town officials in towns on proposed RT extensions or the current RT lines (Green Line included) to meet specifically regarding transportation. Obviously the bigger cities will still have more of a voice, but it would get projects like the blue line to lynn or Salem pushed through. I personally want to see Salem utilize it's new waterfront property for attracting jobs over tourists, as a brand new waterfront with docking for cruise ships (as planned currently) would certainly be a very attractive end point for the blue line, or rapid transit through DMUs along the current CR line. Granted the lines would either need a transfer from current Salem or south salem station, but Salem could use those stupid trolleys for it or have a regular bus run out to the new waterfront and salem willows.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby wicked » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:05 pm

When was the last time DC Metro expanded prior to the Silver Line? Answer: More than a decade, and that was just building out the originally planned system. DC badly needs another subway tunnel on the west side of the city to deal with the impending increased traffic from the Dulles extension, and it isn't happening anytime soon.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby Elcamo » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:13 pm

wicked wrote:When was the last time DC Metro expanded prior to the Silver Line? Answer: More than a decade, and that was just building out the originally planned system. DC badly needs another subway tunnel on the west side of the city to deal with the impending increased traffic from the Dulles extension, and it isn't happening anytime soon.


Didn't they finish a blue line extension in DC around 2004ish? Also, how is this post relevant?
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby bluelinetolynn » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:18 pm

Ted williams tunnels is a north shore connector that helps people on the north shore get to boston and out of the north shore. Well in return that adds more cars to the road and more pollution.. What I'm trying to get at here is that I feel that the northshore was affected almost the most by the big dig but blue line to lynn was not included in the mitagation. Why was no northshore expansion projects included??? I don't understand I really feel like lynn is always being shafted an just has horrible reps that can't get anything done....
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby GP40MC1118 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:57 pm

Shafted? Try living down in S.E. Mass! The state shafts an entire region on a regular basis!
Southcoast Rail should've been including in the mitigation too!!

D
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby wicked » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:15 pm

Elcamo wrote:
wicked wrote:When was the last time DC Metro expanded prior to the Silver Line? Answer: More than a decade, and that was just building out the originally planned system. DC badly needs another subway tunnel on the west side of the city to deal with the impending increased traffic from the Dulles extension, and it isn't happening anytime soon.


Didn't they finish a blue line extension in DC around 2004ish? Also, how is this post relevant?


It was mentioned that Metro is continually expanding and the T isn't. It took three decades to get the entire Metro system built out.

From 1980-1987 or thereabouts, the T: opened Quincy Center to Braintree (extension); opened Harvard to Alewife (extension); opened the Southwest Corridor (relocation). Those were some significant projects. Surely the T can be much better managed, but to say it's not added significant amounts of new trackage in modern times is incorrect.

Note that the Big Dig has sucked up much of Massachusetts' transportation funding for the better part of 20 years.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby bluelinetolynn » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:37 pm

That is a very good point I forget that the big dig was going on for so long and that it cost so much so now that it is done we will see what happens in the following twenty years. The problem I think now is that the T is in huge amount of debt part because of the big dig and the problems with forward funding and the T it seems to be hurting expansion projects...

I don't understand, to me the T is everything not just commuter rail and rapid transit metro I just never heard it referred to that way.

I agree that the T has expanded alot in the last three decades but it has promised lynn the blue line since my grand father was a kid and never happened every time it came up for consideration it got chosen over by the red ,orange and every other project that happened in the last fifty years. Being from lynn obviously I'm bias to wanting the blue line first and feel like it is the most benefical to the community it will serve but I feel that everything in thefuture mbta should be built....
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby The EGE » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:30 pm

Excepting the Silver Line - a lightly-used and cheaply-built substitute for a real rail line - the last new MBTA subway service was the Orange Line relocation in 1987, which was actually a service reduction as one transit line replaced two (Arborway Line + Washington Street El). The last expansion of subway service was the Harvard-Alewife extension in 1984-5, which opened 27 years ago.

Since then, the Old Colony Lines have been reopened (1997 and 2007), including the Greenbush Line with its massively expensive trenching. The Worcester Line reopened past Framingham, and the Newburyport Line past Ipswich. Rhode Island service was restored in 1988, with South Attleboro opening in 1990 to serve Pawtucket/Central Falls customers, and (granted, RI-funded) expansion south in 2010 and 2012. The Franklin Line was extended one stop in 1988. Extensions to Wachusett and South Coast Rail are in the works.

The only improved rail service inside Route 128 since 1985 has been the opening of the too-infrequent Fairmount Line (which only now is receiving proper stop spacing) in 1987, and the 2002 addition of regular service to Yawkey (only now being rebuilt to receive full service). Meanwhile, the GLX and Blue Line to Lynn have been promised for decades (and wanted since 1945) and Washington El-replacement light rail is nothing more than lip service. Chelsea and Everett, just 3 miles from downtown, share one bare-asphalt commuter station and mediocre bus service.

Lynn, Somerville, Medford, Chelsea, Everett, Dorchester, and Allston (to say nothing of other inner suburbs and other neighborhoods) have been put on the back burner since the days when 8-track players were cool. All for the benefit of the rich suburbanites who ride the train - and the even larger multitudes who use I-93 for free.

When Lynn and Somerville claim they're owed transit, I don't consider that entitlement or hyperbole. They've been shafted for too long.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby wicked » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:35 pm

You're correct, but to get anything done in any legislature, you have to appeal to the largest number of elected representatives. A rail line passing through six or eight legislators' spread-out districts is going to get more backing than a subway extension passing through two legislative districts (Greenbush being a notable extension).

Also, I'd be stunned if any significant transit project in this state gets significant federal backing (i.e. can get through Congress) for another decade or two.
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