Blue Line Extension ROW

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Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby theseaandalifesaver » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:04 pm

What exactly is left of the ROW that extends to Lynn from Wonderland. I grew up fairly close to there and I can pretty much only follow it until Kelly's then it seems to vanish completely.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby jbvb » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:12 am

When I last passed through, I didn't see anything left on the Lynn side - it's all in private ownership and built on. On the Revere side, it looks like it's mostly intact on the ocean side of Rt. 1A. I saw what I think is the apartment building people have mentioned as being built on it towards the north end of the beach. But all the plans I've heard have it using the B&M RoW from the Saugus River to wherever it finally terminates (Central Sq., Salem?), and a recent scheme has it moving over to the B&M at Wonderland, as that is cheaper than building the necessary bridges on the north end of the beach.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby jonnhrr » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:04 am

From looking at the area on Google satellite view, the area loosk very built up, how would they get over to the B&M ROW from Wonderland without having to take a lot of private property?

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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby diburning » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:22 pm

The blue line's ROW should still be there. look for a tiny slit in the trees.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby atsf sp » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:06 am

It is still cleared completely after Wonderland along Revere Beach.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby madcrow » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:06 am

What are the compartive population densities of the two routes? I would think that the old BRB&L route would serve more people directly, whereas a conversion of the CR to rapid transit service (though Salem, at least) would be, more of a Park and Ride type operation.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:35 pm

madcrow wrote:What are the compartive population densities of the two routes? I would think that the old BRB&L route would serve more people directly, whereas a conversion of the CR to rapid transit service (though Salem, at least) would be, more of a Park and Ride type operation.


The old route (which is still clear because it's been MTA/MBTA owned ever since they built the '54 BL extension) hits a lot more people. As an intermediate stop Point of Pines would serve a very densely populated neighborhood that the CR route does not. The intermediate stop on the CR route would most likely be Riverworks (which is a part-time--at best--CR flag stop for factory employees)...and that would have very limited appeal except as a light-use commuting stop that's totally dead at night, possible park-and-ride, and something/anything to stick halfway between. Unquestionably the ridership is higher if the intermediate stop is Point of Pines on the BRB&L routing, and it would allow them to consolidate 5 traffic-clogging bus routes that traverse Lynn and Wonderland along Route 1A and through the would-be PoP stop into a more manageable number. That ROW also would be straighter and operationally easier than whatever sharp and awkward curve they'd have to do to cut from Wonderland to the CR ROW; it looks like there's some open space on Google Maps that wouldn't involve tunneling, but the more you avoid tunneling the sharper and slower those curves get. Ultimately, though, this hinges on the cost of that Saugus River crossing. The Lynn terminus ridership and bus connections outweigh any intermediate stop ridership many times over, so if they simply can't afford the bridge on the BRB&L then paralleling the CR is the only way it'll get built. And after 50+ years of this vaporware extension persisting as a priority build at this point building the damn thing at all trumps niceties like a heavy-use intermediate stop.

Now, the BRB&L ROW after crossing the river naturally hits the CR ROW in a straight line at about the same spot where the Saugus Branch junctions, so actual Lynn station and anything further they'd ever want to do out to Salem would be built alongside the CR. So neither routing has any impact on what they could eventually do out to Salem/128.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:43 pm

I was at a friend's house out in Point of Pines recently and she took me out to the former BRB&L ROW where that large apartment building was constructed actually on the ROW. While we were prowling around, we spoke to one guy who told us that rail still existed somewhere not too far away. Unfortunately, we were pressed for time and couldn't check it out further. I was curious how the building got construction approval by the city of Revere if it is actually on MBTA property ?
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:51 pm

In 1995 when I was 15, I think that was the year, I walked the row from Wonderland right up to the old bridge. The only obstructions were a few neighborhood fences. In a few places the Row was paved over for access to driveways and to parking lots. I think the big apartment complex is actually not on the row. Its just very close to it. But this was 15 years ago. Below is what the site looks like today.

Row Map

I think that section was always tight, hence why this was a Narrow Gage railroad. Does this sound right? The one thing I have never been too clear on was where in Point of Pines the cross over was achieved. It looks like the highway department has drastically changed the landscape over there.

One of the Areas that has been taken today is a small U-turn section on North Shore Road.

U-turn

This is where I saw old rails that must have been dug up and discarded there.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:14 pm

I'm trying to remember my walk through there and I believe that at the time it occured to me that the ROW was not actually through the building structure itself but through it's parking lot which is directly behind it. I know that for a building of that size that there would have to be parking large enough for most, if not all, of the units inside, and that property would most likely have to be included for that purpose in the original specs for approval. So...how did that parcel come to be used this way ? Could the lot be actually owned by the MBTA with an agreement for use until at which time the T wants it back ? I'm sure that it was thought at the time of building construction that the ROW was just an old "ruin", but how do you buy a piece of property that's owned by the State that the State doesn't sell you ? Likewise, how did the city of Revere issue a building permit ? I'd like to expand my back yard by building on my neighbors yard but I don't think that it would wash. :-D
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby jamesinclair » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:15 am

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:In 1995 when I was 15, I think that was the year, I walked the row from Wonderland right up to the old bridge. The only obstructions were a few neighborhood fences. In a few places the Row was paved over for access to driveways and to parking lots. I think the big apartment complex is actually not on the row. Its just very close to it. But this was 15 years ago. Below is what the site looks like today.

Row Map

I think that section was always tight, hence why this was a Narrow Gage railroad. Does this sound right? The one thing I have never been too clear on was where in Point of Pines the cross over was achieved. It looks like the highway department has drastically changed the landscape over there.

One of the Areas that has been taken today is a small U-turn section on North Shore Road.

U-turn

This is where I saw old rails that must have been dug up and discarded there.


Whats this bridge thing over the river? It looks like a rail bridge that was broken in the middle for clearance reasons

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1

It seems to be a natural extension of the ROW
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:33 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:In 1995 when I was 15, I think that was the year, I walked the row from Wonderland right up to the old bridge. The only obstructions were a few neighborhood fences. In a few places the Row was paved over for access to driveways and to parking lots. I think the big apartment complex is actually not on the row. Its just very close to it. But this was 15 years ago. Below is what the site looks like today.

Row Map

I think that section was always tight, hence why this was a Narrow Gage railroad. Does this sound right? The one thing I have never been too clear on was where in Point of Pines the cross over was achieved. It looks like the highway department has drastically changed the landscape over there.

One of the Areas that has been taken today is a small U-turn section on North Shore Road.

U-turn

This is where I saw old rails that must have been dug up and discarded there.


Whats this bridge thing over the river? It looks like a rail bridge that was broken in the middle for clearance reasons

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1

It seems to be a natural extension of the ROW


One of them looks like a wooden pier, but on the other side it does indeed look like the steel skeleton of an old RR bridge. Possible half of that is a remnant of the original bridge and half is a pier built on the footprint of a demolished half of the bridge.

Another advantage of this routing is that once it does link up to the CR the ROW goes 4-track width and the 4 overpasses it crosses until the terminus already have 2 unused berths. CR from Wonderland is 2-track width only with a grade crossing and 2 bridges (one a raised bridge) that would have to be widened. So it's not necessarily a massive difference in expense to augment the CR, especially if it takes any tunneling to cut over from Wonderland.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby sixflagscoasters » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:50 pm

^ If you look closely one side has a pipe line on it, then the line goes underground. I am not sure if its a gas line or boat refuel/unload stop. But this was probably the location of the bridge. I don't think the structures that are currently there are the old rail bridges, but they may very well be.
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby tom18287 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:09 pm

its probably built on the old supports, that why its in the same spot
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Re: Blue Line Extension ROW

Postby trainhq » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:43 am

We took a look at this route several years ago. After quite a bit of study, it was dropped for two reasons.
First, the ROW is too crowded and built upon. Second, the track and bridgework from Point of Pines would
have been much more expensive and disruptive to existing facilities. It was dropped from consideration; I do not believe it will be examined again.
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