Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:52 am

RearOfSignal wrote:
CSX Conductor wrote:
diburning wrote:Everyone knows that once a train goes into emergency, it cannot move until the brake pipe is recharged, which takes a lot more than 5 seconds.
Plus the crew of each train that had an Emergency Brake Application would be required to inspect their train.


You have to walk the train even in an engineer initiated dump?


I haven't been to CSX class in a while or over there territory in quite a while but I'm thinking you only would have to to a physical inspecition in a UDE.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby diburning » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:47 pm

Well, wouldn't they have to do a brake test too?
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:56 pm

diburning wrote:Well, wouldn't they have to do a brake test too?


Usually not if they didn't add or subtract any cars to the consist or change ends on a push/pull.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:04 pm

Being realistc here all of that stuff goes out the window in case of an emergency like this one. Any engineers first insticnt is going to be back up back up and get outa the way as fast as possible, there is no time for brake tests and if you really want to get down to it he shoulda called the dispatcher for a reverse move or had a crew member leading the movement. I'm sure he was thinking what the same engineer was thinking in the Canton accident, try to back up as soon as possible to prevent the crash. The engineers are required to call out every signal on the worcester line so there should be no issues figuring out the circumstances surrounding the accident.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:46 pm

Backing up without permission or without someone on the other end leading the movement would make a bad situation even worse.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby MNCRR9000 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:49 pm

Where the incident happened who was in charge of dispatching, was it the control center in South Station or CSX?
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby Cadet57 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:52 pm

MNCRR9000 wrote:Where the incident happened who was in charge of dispatching, was it the control center in South Station or CSX?


According to the boston.com article on the SS incident, it was CSX. Amtrak only dispatches South Station.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby MNCRR9000 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:15 pm

Yeah after reading the article again they did say that they think it was the CSX dispatcher that was at fault.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:36 pm

RearOfSignal wrote:Backing up without permission or without someone on the other end leading the movement would make a bad situation even worse.


How so? if the engineer is qualified on the territory then he knows how far he can back up before re-entereing the previous block and if he was a regular guy than he knows when the next train was behind him. Those 2 things take are split second things to consider vs telling the conductor to run to the rear of the train for a backup move.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:20 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:
RearOfSignal wrote:Backing up without permission or without someone on the other end leading the movement would make a bad situation even worse.


How so? if the engineer is qualified on the territory then he knows how far he can back up before re-entereing the previous block and if he was a regular guy than he knows when the next train was behind him. Those 2 things take are split second things to consider vs telling the conductor to run to the rear of the train for a backup move.


That makes little sense, in that situation the engineer didn't expect a train coming at him on the same track so how could he expect to know what going on behind him, especially if no one is back there leading the move?

I very much doubt that the rules allow you to make reverse move without permission, which would be reason enough not to do it.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby GP40MC 1116 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:28 pm

In a dire emergency, things change by the second, whats worse, a head on collision when fully stopped or a collision when you are slightly in motion?
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:34 pm

GP40MC 1116 wrote:In a dire emergency, things change by the second, whats worse, a head on collision when fully stopped or a collision when you are slightly in motion?


Yeah if your moving backwards and a train slams into the front(now the back since it's moving backward) it might lessen the impact, but how do you know you're not running into something behind you? The engineer didn't expect the train coming at him so what the engineer "knew" didn't matter much. So by that same principle how does he know whats behind him?
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:56 pm

If your a regular guy on the job then you should know what is following you or in the area as far as other trains. I'm not saying in a normal situation this is a smart thing to do or the right thing to do, but as far as contacting the dispatcher etc etc my first priority would to go get the train setup to reverese imediately! I could see if he was in a large terminal with 3, 4, or 5 tracks behind him but if he was just departing back bay than there was only the #1 and # 2 and the next switch would of been at least 1/4 a mile behind him.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:12 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:If your a regular guy on the job then you should know what is following you or in the area as far as other trains. I'm not saying in a normal situation this is a smart thing to do or the right thing to do, but as far as contacting the dispatcher etc etc my first priority would to go get the train setup to reverese imediately! I could see if he was in a large terminal with 3, 4, or 5 tracks behind him but if he was just departing back bay than there was only the #1 and # 2 and the next switch would of been at least 1/4 a mile behind him.


I would be calling out "EMERGENCY" x3 on the radio hoping to get the other train to stop. If you already dumped your train, then you would have to take about a minute or so to recharge anyway before you would get moving.
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Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:36 pm

Yes but we haven't had a comfirmation from a reliable source that both trains were in emergency. All we have so far is hear say from passengers and a few buffs that were on the train.
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