Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Near Collison on Worcester Line? 9/14/09

Postby jscola30 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:08 pm

I don't trust WHDH but...http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO124469/

Trouble on the tracks: 2 trains were on collision course

BOSTON -- Train officials are investigating how two trains got onto the same track headed for each other. The train company CSX, which operates the section of the track involved, confirmed there were two commuter rail trains on the Worcester line heading right for each other. Passengers on the outbound train from South Station said they felt the train come to an abrupt stop and then travel backwards when the train stopped at Back Bay Station. "The train pulled away from Back Bay and we were moving forward, and then all of a sudden it came to an abrupt halt. Nothing fell down or anything, but it was definitely a quick forward motion when it braked. Probably about five seconds later, we started moving backwards," said Sarah Visveek, a passenger on the outbound train.



On the TV, one of the passengers said a conductor told her that the trains were within 100' of each other.

[edit- YOU MUST provide a brief quote of the story you are linking to! -omv]
jscola30
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby dbperry » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:20 pm

I was on P529 outbound from Back Bay when we stopped in emergency. I grabbed my scanner and turned it on to discover that P529 (westbound) and P526 (eastbound) were on the SAME track (#1) and each had gone into emergency to stop to avoid a HEAD-ON collision. This all happened just east of automatic signal 2.1.

After lots of talk between CSX NA and the MBCR Boston Chief, P529 backed up (east) past Cove (we had to get a signal from Tower 1 - we ended up about 1 and a half cars past Tower 1). We were switched onto Track 2 at Cove and proceeded west. When passing P526, the engineer on P529 asked P526 what signal they had at 2 and P526 said "approach medium." P529 said "wow."

Lots of chatter on the radio about everyone needing a 'change of underwear.'

This was the lead story on the Channel 7 news tonight. Although the passenger who is quoted as saying that we moved east "five seconds" after stopping is VERY wrong. We were stopped for a long time (five minutes?) while there was a long discussion about permission to move east. Also note that the idea put forth in the Channel 7 story that "the company" was able to correct the problem before anything happened is also false. The engineers of both trains put their trains into emergency stop when they saw each other. That was clear from the radio chatter.

The only announcement made over the public address during or after any of this was that 'we were on the wrong track' and needed to back up to switch to the correct track.

When I got off in Framingham, I asked an assistant conductor how close the trains got and he claimed not to know.

Judging by the track configuration and the speed of P529 at the time, I would not be surprised to learn that the trains were within 100 feet of each other.

Dave
User avatar
dbperry
 
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:28 pm
Location: Suburbs of Boston

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby diburning » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:54 pm

7NEWS always aggrivates me with their exxageration, lack of professionalism, and misinformation. They will (mis)quote anyone.

Everyone knows that once a train goes into emergency, it cannot move until the brake pipe is recharged, which takes a lot more than 5 seconds.

I was really mad when Laura Pryzbyl used "T" with 4 different definitions in the same sentence when reporting the green line collision at Government Center. The news anchors and reporters seem to lack professionalism as they don't dress appropriately for their job and they don't seem to know how to speak in proper english. The anchors also give their opinions and comments after reporting the news. Walter Cronkite had only expressed his opinion once in his whole career. What happened to great journalism?

<end of rant>

Back on topic; that passenger was probably lying as the crew SHOULD NOT have responded to that question (how far are we from the other train?) Also, I doubt that the passengers knew at the time as it was announced that they "were on the wrong track", but not "we just prevented a collision"
User avatar
diburning
 
Posts: 2964
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Practicing safe CSX by using Three-Step Protection

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby theseaandalifesaver » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:14 pm

How does something like that even come close to happening?
theseaandalifesaver
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:34 pm
Location: PLZ NO TRUMP, USA

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby diburning » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:02 am

dispatcher must have accidently set the signals to clear on both sides.
User avatar
diburning
 
Posts: 2964
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Practicing safe CSX by using Three-Step Protection

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:11 am

If this really occured, it is a serious incident with the Metrolink incident still fresh (a year ago this week).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
User avatar
R36 Combine Coach
 
Posts: 4848
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby dbperry » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:15 am

diburning wrote:dispatcher must have accidently set the signals to clear on both sides.


So there is no automated check and balance system within the dispatch system to prevent setting home signals to clear at opposing ends of a block? Isn't that kind of a big loophole ready for human error to wander through?
User avatar
dbperry
 
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:28 pm
Location: Suburbs of Boston

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:11 am

dbperry wrote:
diburning wrote:dispatcher must have accidently set the signals to clear on both sides.


So there is no automated check and balance system within the dispatch system to prevent setting home signals to clear at opposing ends of a block? Isn't that kind of a big loophole ready for human error to wander through?



That's the big ?? here there should of been something between the dispatcher keeping him from puting 2 trains on the same track even if he wanted to...
AMTRAK HAWK DETECTOR TRACK 1 NOOO DEFECTS OUT!
AEM7AC920
 
Posts: 2582
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Unkown.....

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby ags » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:01 am

whatever caused it, is it the reason P531 got canceled after a 25 minute delay (or so we were told...)?
ags
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:46 pm

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby sery2831 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:46 am

diburning wrote:dispatcher must have accidently set the signals to clear on both sides.


That really can't happen. One train would not be able to get a permissive signal. But the dispatcher could talk one train by a red signal and have that train go slow... But once that train goes into the track with the on coming train the signals will drop red for that train.
Moderator: MBTA Rail Operations
User avatar
sery2831
 
Posts: 5127
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Manchester, NH

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby CSX Conductor » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:15 am

diburning wrote:Everyone knows that once a train goes into emergency, it cannot move until the brake pipe is recharged, which takes a lot more than 5 seconds.
Plus the crew of each train that had an Emergency Brake Application would be required to inspect their train.
User avatar
CSX Conductor
 
Posts: 5458
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:04 am
Location: Boston, Mass

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby CSX Conductor » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:17 am

diburning wrote:dispatcher must have accidently set the signals to clear on both sides.

It's impossible for the dispatcher to do that. Also, the signal at 2.1 is an automatic signal which the dispatcher doesn't have control of.
User avatar
CSX Conductor
 
Posts: 5458
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:04 am
Location: Boston, Mass

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby GP40MC 1116 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:20 am

diburning wrote:Everyone knows that once a train goes into emergency, it cannot move until the brake pipe is recharged, which takes a lot more than 5 seconds


Yes, many of us who are rail fans may know that, but to say "everyone knows" you are implying it is common knowledge :wink:
User avatar
GP40MC 1116
 
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:38 pm

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:11 am

CSX Conductor wrote:
diburning wrote:Everyone knows that once a train goes into emergency, it cannot move until the brake pipe is recharged, which takes a lot more than 5 seconds.
Plus the crew of each train that had an Emergency Brake Application would be required to inspect their train.


You have to walk the train even in an engineer initiated dump?
Hurry up and wait at the signal!
User avatar
RearOfSignal
 
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:31 pm

Re: Near Collison on Worcester Line?

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:49 am

CSX Conductor wrote:
diburning wrote:Everyone knows that once a train goes into emergency, it cannot move until the brake pipe is recharged, which takes a lot more than 5 seconds.
Plus the crew of each train that had an Emergency Brake Application would be required to inspect their train.


Well in this situation I don't think anyone is going to follow rules and inspect the train if they are trying to recover and get the heck outa the way of the oncoming train. I still don't think there are enough concrete details to assume what happned exactly yet. If it is true that the train made a quick stop and revered than I'm going to assume the engineer just slaped it in full service and just backed up as fast as he could, seeing that the K cars have disc and tread brakes they do stop rather quickly.
AMTRAK HAWK DETECTOR TRACK 1 NOOO DEFECTS OUT!
AEM7AC920
 
Posts: 2582
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Unkown.....

Next

Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BigUglyCat and 10 guests