Commuter Rail To Millis and Milford

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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby Teamdriver » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:13 am

The people i know from Millis seem to feel that the Norfolk station serves their needs, and the 109 clusterflux makes for good fodder to complain about, plus forget about Dover liking anything . Plus they are pissed about selling water out of Clicquot clubs wells ect ect.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby HenryAlan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:14 pm

I hate to kill a possible extension, but I think a greater good would come from replacing Needham with Green and Orange Line extensions. It would better serve the corridor's population, and also remove some congestion from the NEC portion of the route.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby highgreen215 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:15 pm

Let understand this. You think that Orange and Green Line service is an UPGRADE from the comfortable commuter rail that Needham enjoys??
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby HenryAlan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:37 pm

highgreen215 wrote:Let understand this. You think that Orange and Green Line service is an UPGRADE from the comfortable commuter rail that Needham enjoys??


Yes, that's what I said, isn't it? To be clear, CR is more comfortable than LRT or HRT, and it's usually faster. But frequency is the service issue requiring an upgrade. Due to station spacing, the Needham Line does not enjoy much of a speed advantage over RT, and if you board in Roslindale or West Roxbury, you usually don't get a seat, so much of the comfort level is lost, too. So far, we're only talking about current riders. But there is also a large number of people in that corridor who ride buses either for local service or for transfer to OL at Forest Hills. That's thousands of riders who would be better served by any measure if they had direct access to the Orange Line. All of this is before we even look at additional riders who currently drive to Forest Hills or locally but could take rail instead.

To reiterate, a greater good would be served by transitioning Needham to rapid transit. It would serve more people, and for the majority, it would serve them better.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:53 pm

highgreen215 wrote:Let understand this. You think that Orange and Green Line service is an UPGRADE from the comfortable commuter rail that Needham enjoys??



So by your logic, replacing the Blue Line (or any line) with commuter rail would be more comfortable and improve the lives of those along it?
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby HenryAlan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:47 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:
highgreen215 wrote:Let understand this. You think that Orange and Green Line service is an UPGRADE from the comfortable commuter rail that Needham enjoys??



So by your logic, replacing the Blue Line (or any line) with commuter rail would be more comfortable and improve the lives of those along it?


The Braintree branch and probably all of the Orange Line should be eliminated. Nobody rides them, because they are paralleled by the more comfortable commuter rail.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby BandA » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:37 pm

Orange line service would be more appropriate for Riverside - Highland Branch (or for the GLX) than LRVs. Reserve LRVs or trolleys for the Central Subway, streetcar lines or even street running. Build an orange line connector from Back Bay to ICA / Hynes, make that station 4 track orange/green, make Kenmore 4-6 track green/orange, restore Needham Loop (Highland Branch+Needham Branch) as an orange line branch.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby highgreen215 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:26 am

Here's the test. If you lived in Needham and worked in Boston, which mode of travel would you prefer to ride during rush hours, round trips, five days a week?

I do think diesel multiple units (DMUs) should be considered for both the Needham branch and Fairmount line for more frequent off-peak service. It used to be that way many years ago with service provided by two car gas buggies, also called doodle bugs.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby djlong » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 am

HenryAlan wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:
So by your logic, replacing the Blue Line (or any line) with commuter rail would be more comfortable and improve the lives of those along it?


The Braintree branch and probably all of the Orange Line should be eliminated. Nobody rides them, because they are paralleled by the more comfortable commuter rail.


So I guess all those cars filling up the parking in Braintree must be ghost cars. The 28,000+ riders (as of the 2010 report) of the Braintree branch would disagree with you.

Oh - and those are Red Line riders. The COMBINED commuter rail boardings at Quincy Center, Braintree and JFK/Umass heading to Boston are: 245/day. 122 each in Braintree and Quincy and ONE at JFK/UMass.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:50 am

highgreen215 wrote:Here's the test. If you lived in Needham and worked in Boston, which mode of travel would you prefer to ride during rush hours, round trips, five days a week?

I do think diesel multiple units (DMUs) should be considered for both the Needham branch and Fairmount line for more frequent off-peak service. It used to be that way many years ago with service provided by two car gas buggies, also called doodle bugs.


Not gonna happen. The NEC congestion through Back Bay and Ruggles is problematic, Needham is never going to get any increase in priority with Providence and Amtrak getting the spoils and some indeterminate extension of the Stoughton Line (be it Taunton or the full FR/NB apocalypse) still in the mix, and even at an expanded South Station it still has to share platform slots with all other NEC services. The only way they can realistically get increased service is to graduate to the rapid transit system. 25 min. headways on a clock-facing schedule with DMU's simply isn't possible here like it is on the Fairmount or possibly some Riverside short-turn + infill stops similar service on the Worcester Line. And the density in Rozzie, West Rox, and Needham Ctr. most definitely will support all-day Orange and Green branch-off-a-branch headways of <10 min. on Orange and 10-20 min. on an outer Green branch.

Remember, when the SW Corridor was designed Needham was fully expected to be deleted from the commuter rail in favor of an Orange extension past FH. If the intent was to keep it permanently on the CR they probably would've tweaked the design of the cut to quad-track all the way to FH.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby jbvb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:40 pm

My analysis found a major motivation for most "Blue Line to Lynn" boosters was "lower fares than the commuter rail and buses we already have". This might motivate Needham, some day, but it clearly hasn't persuaded Melrose or Medford.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby HenryAlan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:51 pm

djlong wrote:
HenryAlan wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:
So by your logic, replacing the Blue Line (or any line) with commuter rail would be more comfortable and improve the lives of those along it?


The Braintree branch and probably all of the Orange Line should be eliminated. Nobody rides them, because they are paralleled by the more comfortable commuter rail.


So I guess all those cars filling up the parking in Braintree must be ghost cars. The 28,000+ riders (as of the 2010 report) of the Braintree branch would disagree with you.

Oh - and those are Red Line riders. The COMBINED commuter rail boardings at Quincy Center, Braintree and JFK/Umass heading to Boston are: 245/day. 122 each in Braintree and Quincy and ONE at JFK/UMass.


You missed the irony tags. I was pointing out that the comfort of a few shouldn't be seen as more important than a better service class for many. Note my earlier posts arguing to convert the Needham Line to rapid transit.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby highgreen215 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:57 pm

F-line: I ask you the same question. Given the choice of the three modes, which one would you prefer to ride every day from/to Needham? Have you ever ridden the Orange Line during rush hour? Would you prefer to STAND cheek to jowl with sneezing strangers and loud jousting teenagers outbound every day, sometimes as far as Forest Hills? Or would you prefer the comfort of CR? Your choice.
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby novitiate » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:21 pm

highgreen215 wrote:F-line: I ask you the same question. Given the choice of the three modes, which one would you prefer to ride every day from/to Needham? Have you ever ridden the Orange Line during rush hour? Would you prefer to STAND cheek to jowl with sneezing strangers and loud jousting teenagers outbound every day, sometimes as far as Forest Hills? Or would you prefer the comfort of CR? Your choice.

So is the argument here basically "no one will ride rapid transit, it's too crowded"?
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Re: Commuter rail extensions to Millis and Milford.

Postby jonnhrr » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:31 pm

Perhaps some kind of skip stop arrangement if OL ever extended to Needham, expresses after Back Bay would only stop at Ruggles and Forest Hills then all stops to Needham. That would reduce overcrowding and make ride more comfortable. Not sure if the infrastructure could support that kind of service though.

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