New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby BandA » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:15 pm

Irony is that MA cars aren't eligible for feddybucks for their CRRC-MA cars, but SEPTA Commuter Rail coaches ordered from same factory are.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:51 pm

orange1234 wrote:To my knowledge, only the carbody shells are coming from China. There is a minimum 60% domestic content requirement in the contract and CRRC has exceeded that. The trucks (bogies) are coming from Bradken (formerly Atchison Casting).
Atchison Foundry was formerly a Rockwell subsidiary (LFM), supplying locomotive subframes.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby Stp243 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:47 pm

According to the last slide of the PowerPoint presentation it looks like these new units will be trucked from Springfield to the Wellington Facility. I thought CSX would ship them since they have a spur that leads directly into CRRC's facility in Springfield. That being said I have noticed that the siding ends at CRRC's gate and there is a graded and ballasted, yet trackless path beyond the gate connecting to where the storage tracks are. Was there some sort of physical/logistical reason for choosing trucks over rail?
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby diburning » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:51 pm

Where would they unload them if they shipped via rail? Unloading at Wellington doesn't make much sense since the Western Route is on the opposite side of the station from the shops, and there probably isn't enough room to maneuver the cars at or near BET. I don't think there's enough room to unload and maneuver at Middlesex Ave (the siding north of Wellington) either. Since this would disrupt commuter rail traffic on the single track, they'd probably have to move them at night.

It was probably a better idea logistically to just send them down the pike on a truck.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby CRail » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:14 am

Wellington is connected.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby Stp243 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:02 am

Just spent 15 minutes looking at Wellington on google maps and I can't find a connecting track from the CR side (which is connected to the B&A via a track under the 90/93 interchange) to the actual Wellington Facility. So maybe delivering by trucks makes sense since that whole area is very tight and there isnt a whole lotta room to get the transfer done.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:18 am

There is a connection between the Orange Line and national rail network at Wellington, along Craddock Ave. It goes from the yard to the Medford Branch.

My guess would be that the Orange Line cars cannot be shipped on the national rail network, even as freight, because they don't meet certain strength criteria set by the FRA. So if they would need to be loaded onto a flatcar, perhaps the clearances are too low to get to Wellington. Anyone know the height of the Orange Line cars and how high the bed of a flatcar is?
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby RailBus63 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:47 pm

BandA wrote:I don't understand why the "T" passed over the feddybucks. I thought all rolling stock and most buses were purchased with some sort of federal funding.


I guarantee you that the MBTA did not pass on any Federal funding. There is a pot of money they get, it doesn't necessarily get split among every single capital project.

So I guess CRRC absorbs any steel tariff costs. Additional sanctions might be more problematic, but if CRRC can save money by substituting domestic parts they will, and that would be a win for the US


There may not be a domestic supplier readily available.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby RailBus63 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:49 pm

Stp243 wrote:According to the last slide of the PowerPoint presentation it looks like these new units will be trucked from Springfield to the Wellington Facility. I thought CSX would ship them since they have a spur that leads directly into CRRC's facility in Springfield. That being said I have noticed that the siding ends at CRRC's gate and there is a graded and ballasted, yet trackless path beyond the gate connecting to where the storage tracks are. Was there some sort of physical/logistical reason for choosing trucks over rail?


More likely the trucking cost was cheaper.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby diburning » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:58 pm

I see it now. The connection was hidden from satellite view due to the brush.

I vaguely remember seeing a photo of red line cars (Pullmans) being delivered back in the day via rail on a freight train, with coupler adapter cars on each end.

EDIT: It might have been the SOAC cars, which had transition cars on each end.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby type 7 3704 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:19 pm

Someone posted a video of the Orange Line cars running with the AC inverter sounds in this closed Facebook group New Urbanist Memes for Transit-Oriented Teens (which is pretty easy to join) . Can't find a public link unfortunately.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby octr202 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:25 am

The GM's account tweeted a short video last week of the testing:

https://twitter.com/LMRAMIREZGM/status/ ... 2778609664
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby RenegadeMonster » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:05 am

Sweet.

I'm hopping I will see them in testing this week on the test track when taking the Commuter Rail into work in the morning.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby BandA » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:00 pm

If they are not shipping the completed units by rail, it's a pretty short haul across the state, 2 1/2 hours or less probably (Mr Google says 1 1/2 hrs, but that seems optimistic). How are they receiving the shells from China?

They need to have the option of a rail siding to ship to other customers.
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Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Postby dieciduej » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:38 am

BandA wrote:How are they receiving the shells from China?

The shells are being shipped by sea. I don't remember if it is into Port of Boston or a west coast port.

BandA wrote:They need to have the option of a rail siding to ship to other customers.

Not really. Most major subway car or street car projects now have a stipulation that the car should be built, aka assembled, in the home state of the system they are being built for.

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