Rotem Cars Discussion (new bi-level cars)

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Postby maxman927 » Sat May 24, 2008 6:51 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:
concordgirl wrote:That's cool, I thought it must be something like that. Hmm thanks guys! It's gonna be weird to ride in-- oh wait, can I still call them K-cars???

;-)


Well they aren't K cars since Kawasaki isn't making them! :(


they're K-cars because they're korean!
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Postby sery2831 » Sat May 24, 2008 7:09 pm

maxman927 wrote:they're K-cars because they're korean!


We already have K cars... R cars really don't work, so...
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby StevieC48 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:49 pm

Well I saw the SEPTA Silverliner 5's
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=52408

and by the looks of SEPTA's design they did a nice job on what they asked for.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby diburning » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:47 pm

Rotem makes really good transit rail cars for subway systems, like Hong Kong's MTR for example. However, They've been having problems with rolling stock, Taiwan's commuter rail for example.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby paulrail » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:06 am

What problems are being experienced with the commuter rail cars in Taiwan ?
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby Veristek » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:40 am

paulrail wrote:What problems are being experienced with the commuter rail cars in Taiwan ?


Oscillation (sp?) problems, like vibrations with the wheels + tracks and stuff like that. I'm not sure if the vibration problems will be worse with jointed rails like on the Northside or non-NEC routes on the Southside.

Besides, from what I've read on the SEPTA thread, ROTEM doesn't appear to make aesthetically pleasing commuter cars. The SEPTA commuter coach looks like an oversized subway car. I'd hate to have the ROTEM bi-levels have 3 doors in it- two at the edges and one in the middle or some dumb crap like that.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby mbta1051dan » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:38 pm

Veristek wrote:
paulrail wrote:What problems are being experienced with the commuter rail cars in Taiwan ?


Oscillation (sp?) problems, like vibrations with the wheels + tracks and stuff like that. I'm not sure if the vibration problems will be worse with jointed rails like on the Northside or non-NEC routes on the Southside.


From what I've experienced all the lines on the Southside are continuous rail.

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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby diburning » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:20 pm

mbta1051dan wrote:
Veristek wrote:
paulrail wrote:What problems are being experienced with the commuter rail cars in Taiwan ?


Oscillation (sp?) problems, like vibrations with the wheels + tracks and stuff like that. I'm not sure if the vibration problems will be worse with jointed rails like on the Northside or non-NEC routes on the Southside.


From what I've experienced all the lines on the Southside are continuous rail.

-Dan


i'm not too sure but I think there are parts of the needham line that are still jointed rail. I could be wrong.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby fl9m2026 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:41 am

"Besides, from what I've read on the SEPTA thread, ROTEM doesn't appear to make aesthetically pleasing commuter cars. The SEPTA commuter coach looks like an oversized subway car. I'd hate to have the ROTEM bi-levels have 3 doors in it- two at the edges and one in the middle or some dumb crap like that."

Before you start jumping the gun and blaming ROTEM for what the S5's look like, do you know for a fact that the appearance of the car was their strictly their design and not an image created by SEPTA designers or by another entity (like the route the New York MTA took, having "design/concept firms" create a "look" for their M1 and M1A cars as well as some of the NYCTA subway cars long before the car builder even got to bid)? If SEPTA didn't approve it, then it wouldn't be built. Very seldom does the eventual design of a car NOT have to be approved by the buyer, unless you have situations like Baltimore and Miami who bought identical subway cars from Budd to help drive down the costs of each authority paying to develop their own design. I doubt very seriously that's the case here. The blame may very well lie with ROTEM, but then again it may lie with SEPTA or some design studio for the way these cars look.

The previously posted "concept" of what the MBTA ROTEM cars are supposed to look like is every bit as good looking as the current K-Cars IMHO, even if it IS a slightly modified/air-brushed copy of a pic of a K-Car.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby concordgirl » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:36 am

Well, (a) you'd better be right, bc the current K cars are pretty nice looking imho, and (b) this AIN'T New York and we don't want to ape the MTA, even though (c) as a North Sider I'll prolly see semi-retired Kawasakis before I ever get to ride in a Rotem ;-)
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby Diverging Route » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:02 pm

Veristek wrote:
Besides, from what I've read on the SEPTA thread, ROTEM doesn't appear to make aesthetically pleasing commuter cars. The SEPTA commuter coach looks like an oversized subway car. I'd hate to have the ROTEM bi-levels have 3 doors in it- two at the edges and one in the middle or some dumb crap like that.


If you'd like to experience why the new cars SHOULD have a third door, just ride the Providence line outbound during rush hour. Train 815, for example, can have a dwell time of up to three full minutes at Mansfield. It's at its worst when there's winter weather, and the steps are slippery. Remember -- the bilevels have approximately 50% more passengers when full, leading to much slower loading and unloading. I'll take efficiency over a pleasing design anytime!
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby concordgirl » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:51 pm

okay, touche. that sounds hateful. sorry, us north siders aren't used to such modern innovations as double decker coaches lol Don't know the everyday ins and outs.

so to speak ;-)
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby MBTA3247 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:05 pm

Unless you only wanted to use it at low-level platforms, putting a door in the middle of a bilevel car would substantially reduce capacity, as you'd need a whole extra sublevel between the two main seating levels. The conductors probably wouldn't like that either, since it means two more sets of stairs to go up and down while collecting tickets.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby concordgirl » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

It's hard to picture. I've only been in a K car once, and I remember thinking "What happens at each stop? Is there a line going up the stairs?" It just seems like a pain in the butt if you do not live on one of the more crowded lines.

Anything that impedes foot traffic is bad imho. We already have tons of people who refuse to sit down between stops even when there are a ton of empty seats (maybe bc we are an express). They stand in the aisle rather than walking through to the next coach to find a seat. I'm not sure they would notice there was an upstairs on a bilevel ;-)
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby Veristek » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:26 am

concordgirl wrote:It's hard to picture. I've only been in a K car once, and I remember thinking "What happens at each stop? Is there a line going up the stairs?" It just seems like a pain in the butt if you do not live on one of the more crowded lines.

Anything that impedes foot traffic is bad imho. We already have tons of people who refuse to sit down between stops even when there are a ton of empty seats (maybe bc we are an express). They stand in the aisle rather than walking through to the next coach to find a seat. I'm not sure they would notice there was an upstairs on a bilevel ;-)


Wow, people actually do that?
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