Rotem Cars Discussion (new bi-level cars)

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Postby Robert Paniagua » Thu May 15, 2008 7:11 am

Hopefully MARC doesn't purchase Rotems to supplement their K-car fleet. In MD the MTA isn't afraid to spend some extra $ for a better quality product.

I know, I agree with you, I hope they go with Kawasaki for their bilevels just like the 7800s. And the 7800s bilevels look exactly like my MBTA Kawasaki 1700s with the cab controls.
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Postby AEM7AC920 » Thu May 15, 2008 9:11 am

realtype wrote:From the article:
"Hyundai Rotem, the world's third-largest urban train car maker, said Sunday it won a $170 million contract to build 75 bi-level subway cars for the Boston metro." LOL

Rotems are garbage. Its very disapointing that the MBTA and SEPTA turned down Kawasaki equipment just to save some coin. In the long run it will cost them...

Currently NJT is the only railroad along the NEC to purchase sensible railcars (made by Bombardier).

Hopefully MARC doesn't purchase Rotems to supplement their K-car fleet. In MD the MTA isn't afraid to spend some extra $ for a better quality product.


I think we are jumping the gun here a little as far as the future of the new double deckers. None of us can see into the future so we don't exactly know what is going to happen so how can we say the MBTA is going to pay in the long run when the cars haven't even been made yet?? For all anyone knows the cars can turn out as good as the Kawasaki's. Yes it could of been a risk to go with a different company but as we all know the T picks the most suitable company for the contract. Yes the company may have produced a few lemons in the past but that doesn't mean everything that will come from them will be "garbage." You can't just go with proven designs forever someone sooner or later will have to try a new design out or we would still be running with ancient equipment.
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Postby e-m00 » Thu May 15, 2008 10:19 am

AEM7AC920 wrote:but as we all know the T picks the most suitable company for the contract.


*cough* Breda *cough*
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Postby CSX Conductor » Thu May 15, 2008 1:28 pm

Looks a bit like the new NJ Transit double deck control car I saw in Selkirk the other day. Not sure who makes those though.
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Postby diburning » Thu May 15, 2008 3:04 pm

e-m00 wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:but as we all know the T picks the most suitable company for the contract.


*cough* Breda *cough*


Breda has bad stuff and good stuff. The bad stuff would be the Washington metro that derails every month, and our own type 8s which derail because of design issues.

However, MUNI runs all Bredas in their subways and Light Rail and don't have any problems. (Obviously not the same design as the others)
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Postby sery2831 » Thu May 15, 2008 4:20 pm

We are wandering off topic here, the T choose Rotem.... This is a discussion about the new cars from Rotem.
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Postby realtype » Thu May 15, 2008 6:15 pm

Hopefully the MBTA wasn't as underhanded as SEPTA was in their decision to go with Rotem. Kawasaki actually legitimately won the bid there in the grounds of required experience, but SEPTA chose Rotem anyways, resulting in a lawsuit from Kawasaki.
Result: SEPTA modified the contract so only Rotem could possibly bid.

I know that transit agenices are trying to save their taxpayers money, but they need to weigh the cost vs the benefits. In my opinion Kawasaki has a higher cost/benefit value than Rotem. The fastest commuter rail cars in the US ar Kawasakis (MARC's 125mph bi-levels), how does that compare to Rotem?

Why buy a Hyundai when you can have a Honda?

I know this topic is about the new MBTA Rotem's, but I think its neccessary to correct 'diburning' on his assesment of DCs Bredas.

diburning wrote:
Breda has bad stuff and good stuff. The bad stuff would be the Washington metro that derails every month, and our own type 8s which derail because of design issues.

However, MUNI runs all Bredas in their subways and Light Rail and don't have any problems. (Obviously not the same design as the others)


The Washington Metro's Bredas are not "bad stuff." In fact they are actually some of our more reliable cars, and I've never heard of a recent Breda derailment. I think the cars you mean to say are the CAF cars which do derail frequently, and are being investigated by the NTSB. LRVs and heavy rail cars are very different and it wouldn't be surprising that the MBTAs Bredas were "bad stuff."
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Postby sery2831 » Thu May 15, 2008 9:02 pm

Any more off topic posts will be deleted... thanks.
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby concordgirl » Thu May 22, 2008 2:17 pm

sery2831 wrote:From NETransit:
On February 7, 2008 the MBTA Board of Directors voted on a $190 million contract with Rotem for 75 bi-level cars, first four cars are to be delivered by 2010 while the remaining 71 cars are to be delivered in 2011-2012. Order is for 28 cab-control cars without restrooms and 47 blind-trailer coaches with restrooms.




So how come the first 4 cars are scheduled to arrive a year before the bulk of them? I'm assuming it's so the first 4 can go to BET or someplace and be evaluated, then if they pass muster and are what the MBTA wants them to be, the others come later? Could the first 4 end up having slightly different features from the ones that come later on?
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Re: Rotem cars on order topic (new bi-level cars)

Postby diburning » Thu May 22, 2008 2:56 pm

concordgirl wrote:
sery2831 wrote:From NETransit:
On February 7, 2008 the MBTA Board of Directors voted on a $190 million contract with Rotem for 75 bi-level cars, first four cars are to be delivered by 2010 while the remaining 71 cars are to be delivered in 2011-2012. Order is for 28 cab-control cars without restrooms and 47 blind-trailer coaches with restrooms.




So how come the first 4 cars are scheduled to arrive a year before the bulk of them? I'm assuming it's so the first 4 can go to BET or someplace and be evaluated, then if they pass muster and are what the MBTA wants them to be, the others come later? Could the first 4 end up having slightly different features from the ones that come later on?


I think it is so that the MBTA can test them out and if they have any mods for them they could put it in before the other cars are made.
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Postby AEM7AC920 » Thu May 22, 2008 8:54 pm

When any railroad or transit agency orders new cars they always get a prototype of some sort before the main order to test any potential issues or problems. After the issues with the Bredas the T has probably learned a lesson about testing for all possible issues before accepting equipment.
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Postby concordgirl » Fri May 23, 2008 9:53 am

That's cool, I thought it must be something like that. Hmm thanks guys! It's gonna be weird to ride in-- oh wait, can I still call them K-cars???

;-)
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Postby AEM7AC920 » Fri May 23, 2008 10:53 pm

concordgirl wrote:That's cool, I thought it must be something like that. Hmm thanks guys! It's gonna be weird to ride in-- oh wait, can I still call them K-cars???

;-)


Well they aren't K cars since Kawasaki isn't making them! :(
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Postby sery2831 » Fri May 23, 2008 11:15 pm

R cars?
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Postby concordgirl » Sat May 24, 2008 9:04 am

sery2831 wrote:R cars?


Sounds funny to say but logical :) I wonder how many there'd be in a typical NS consist. I still can't picture riding in them up here but if some are control cars they'd prolly be a lot nicer than riding in a German car with scoliosis-correcting seatbacks ;)
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