Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Transit

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Robert Paniagua » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:01 am

The train I had this morning once again conseisted of just the T/O while another T worker was with him watching the T/O also do C/R duties on my train.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby TrainManTy » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:45 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:Other problems to lop onto what I'm sure is a whole list of contributions to delays: the regular truncation to Harvard until Spring (and since half the trains will be reversing on the outbound platform, they don't have a monitor to see the doors), and Porter is under construction until Spring which poses potential problems in line of sight maybe, as well as potential risks to monitors and almost certain risk to cameras. These are both supposed to end in March 2012.


I would assume Harvard at least and possibly Porter will have inspectors armed with flashlights to help the train operator.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Diverging Route » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:27 am

This morning I was on a RL train that was operating OPTO. I assume it was a training and/or practice operation. I rode from South Station to Kendall, and was sitting in the "railfan seat," and the window into the cab was not blocked. It was an 1800-series consist (1801 in the lead). At each station, the train operator stopped the train, got up from her seat, walked around to the small space between the rear of her seat and the rear wall of the cab, opened the window, then opened the doors. I measured the delay at about four seconds. When she saw all clear by looking out the window along the side of the train and on the monitor, she closed the doors and back to her seat -- again adding two or three seconds to the operation.

There was a second person in the cab; I couldn't tell if he was the normally scheduled guard, or an inspector. At Park Street, he operated the left side doors simultaneously with the operator operating the right side doors. I would have thought if they were trying to simulate what will happen when OPTO goes into full effect, they'd have the train operator do both sides.

When I got off the train at Kendall I waited for the train to leave the station, and verified there was no guard in the usual position in the rear cab of the fourth car.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby jamesinclair » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:04 am

Why would they have to look out the window to open the doors...? Checking for lions?
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Arlington » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:25 am

jamesinclair wrote:Why would they have to look out the window to open the doors...? Checking for lions?

My guess is to confirm that all doors have platform in front of them.

With a human, there's also the issue of accidentally opening the doors on the wrong side, so you'd want them to be looking out the side they are opening.

In more automated systems (I'm familiar with DC) the computer determines 4 things before automatically opening the doors: 1) that the train making a station stop, 2) that it has fully stopped 3) which side the platform is on and 4) that all doors have platform in front of them
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby GP40MC 1116 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:05 pm

Transit motor person's are not perfect, regardless of how many years of service. Many factors contribute at times to overshooting platforms or stopping too short. Next time you ride on the Red Line and the train stops in but not fully lined up to the car markers, take a fine listen if you are near a cab door, you should hear a long bell ringing, which is the motorman signaling to the guard that the train is not fully berthed in the station and not to open the door's.

Complacency leads to mistakes. Imagine going back and forth from Braintree to Alewife all day long. I am willing to bet that more than one guard has opened the opposing set of doors at Downtown Crossing thinking they were in Park Street!

Personally I am against OPTO on any line, especially Heavy Rail. Just in my few (but horrible) long term disabled train's on the Red Line have I witnessed the chaos when one single person is expected to handle far more than they can (and that wasn't even IN an active emergency!)
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby CRail » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:52 pm

Especially when that one employee is relatively new. To have someone else present to assist can go a long way, and that translates to better communication with the passengers. A new employee experiencing a delay with 6 car loads of people who want to argue and bombard them with questions will simply go into lockdown. Then it's up to the official to arrive, often by foot from the nearest station, a trip which does not begin until after he or she arrives at said station.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby StevieC48 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:53 pm

I will say this I had a friend who was a "guard" on the Orange line who opened the doors on the wrong side of Comunity College heading to Oak Grove, he ended up off the trains and worked as a collector and got busted for stealing tokens with an Inspector James Cali or the Green Line. This was years ago. Now a days if someone mad a door opening on the wrong side , they might be busted to a CSA.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Scott10690 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:58 pm

Wouldn't be so sure about that. Fella on the Green Line has opened the doors on both sides at Park Street on the fence track (heading Westbound) and is still working on the trains.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby jamesinclair » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:56 am

Its not exactly a life-ending situation. Oh no, a wall!

Shouldnt happen, but I think the video of the red line door being open in the tunnel is much worse.

Also, it seems like a problem that would be extraordinarily easy to solve with technology.

For example, tie to existing system which states "doors will open on the right." The train knows which sides the doors will open on, so the train should "lock" the other side. That way, if the conductor pushes "open left" and theyre locked, hes realize "oh crap". On the other hand, if the train screws up (and believes it's at Davis again) then the conductor can simply over-ride it.

Obviously new trains would be built to do this.


Really guys, it's 2012. We've developed technology to the point that a computer can manage the highly complicated task of opening a door. Go ask Vancouver, Copenhagen or other 100% automated systems how many people have died due to computer-operated doors. Or just go to Miami if you insist it must be an american system.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby diburning » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:50 pm

The locked doors may be a problem in the event of a malfunction (train thinks it's at DTX instead of Park st) or in the event of an emergency.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby TrainManTy » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:07 pm

diburning wrote:The locked doors may be a problem in the event of a malfunction (train thinks it's at DTX instead of Park st) or in the event of an emergency.


There would always be an operator override ("Are you SURE you want to open the left-hand doors?") and in case of emergency, there's always the manual door release/emergency brake handles.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby jamesinclair » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:11 am

TrainManTy wrote:
diburning wrote:The locked doors may be a problem in the event of a malfunction (train thinks it's at DTX instead of Park st) or in the event of an emergency.


There would always be an operator override ("Are you SURE you want to open the left-hand doors?") and in case of emergency, there's always the manual door release/emergency brake handles.


Exactly, the "lock" would just require the operator confirm thats what they want to do. Wake them up pretty much. Thats why I put lock in quotes.

IE: Press the wrong door, get an angry buzzing noise, which makes the operator think "oh crap, I dun goofed!". But if that IS what they want to open (emergency, system is wrong), they just hit the button again, or hold it for 3 seconds, or whatever. The over-ride is trivial.

Its the double-check the standing up system calls for, but without the waste of time. 5 seconds here and there do add up.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Scott10690 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:02 am

A lengthy chapter in Boston transit history came to a close this morning as the last set of Red Line trains departed Ashmont, Braintree, and Alewife Stations with a Two Person crew. OPTO begins in just a few hours...
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Head-end View » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Are the affected personnel being laid off or hopefully reassigned to other jobs within the MBTA?
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