Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops) Rapid Transit

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby MTD » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:11 am

rethcir wrote:I think this could work well enough on the heavy rail lines, but how the heck would they collect fares on the aboveground green line? Talk about chucking even more revenue.


Just run one-car on the GL instead of the two-car trains we see now. I can't see them have one driver run a two-car GL train at all unless the T in the future buys a LRV thats a much longer length (like a car-and-half long).
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby GP40MC 1116 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:16 am

ags wrote: Well if you recall from about two years ago, there was an emergency and the operators did nothing. The trains stopped operating and overheated. Operators failed to assist so passengers evacuated themselves. The T still has remained quiet on this issue, citing that the evacuation was "unauthorized."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... bta_r.html

Even with two operators the T proved how worthless their operating procedures are when their employees don't take initiative to act.


You might want to re-read the article ags. The emergency was a fire at Park Street Station in which Boston Fire requested the power be shut off on the sections through that station which was done. The passengers evacuated themselves and were lucky not to cause any injuries as it was stupid for them to climb down from the train. I agree the employee's should have walked the train and given the passengers announcements as to what was happening, however, to pull open the side car doors and jump down on the bridge was a stupid thing to do.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby ceo » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 pm

One vs. two operators isn't going to make a difference in evacuations, as that involves a lot more people (T police, firefighters etc.) than just the operator. There's a reason the T would far rather have people sit on disabled trains for an hour or three than have to evacuate people through the tunnels, and I can't say I blame them.

This isn't to say that the T doesn't desperately need to figure out how to communicate useful information in a timely fashion to their employees and customers, of course.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby sery2831 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:49 am

I am a little surprised that no one has mentioned that the Orange Line is being prepped for one man operation. Over the last 2 or 3 weeks mirrors have been installed at the end of platforms. Last week red/green signs have been installed to tell the motorman that they are on the platform to open and close the doors. My guess would be this is going to happen at the Fall rating... Anyone have anymore info on this?
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby madcrow » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:11 am

sery2831 wrote:I am a little surprised that no one has mentioned that the Orange Line is being prepped for one man operation. Over the last 2 or 3 weeks mirrors have been installed at the end of platforms. Last week red/green signs have been installed to tell the motorman that they are on the platform to open and close the doors. My guess would be this is going to happen at the Fall rating... Anyone have anymore info on this?

Does the T's contract with the union even allow them to try this or is the T planning to take advantage of the economic crisis and budget shortfalls to do an end-run around the union? Also, have they considered the safety issues involved? I've seen those mirrors and even with them, I doubt that the train operator would have as good a view to the train as a door guard stationed at the middle of the train. I just plain don't see how they can even consider one-person operation of 6-car trains from either a practical or legal standpoint.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby dieciduej » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:04 am

I have also noticed at Wellington orange spray-paint dots on the platform ceiling/roof. The dots seem to line up with the B end position of the cars. Possibly a reference point for camera mounts to show the train doors, much like the Blue Line. I believe that was a requirement for safe OPTO.

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby RailBus63 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:21 pm

madcrow wrote:. I just plain don't see how they can even consider one-person operation of 6-car trains from either a practical or legal standpoint.


The Blue Line currently operates six-car trains of 0700's.

Also, the door guard on a Red or Orange Line train is not in the middle - they are in the cab of the fourth car, which means that they are responsible for monitoring doorways that are as far as 270 feet away from their operating position. If they can safely operate doors that far away solely by unassisted eyesight, I would argue that it is equally safe for an operator to safely operate the doors of an entire 390-foot or 420-foot train with the benefit of properly-placed video television monitors.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby StevieC48 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:11 pm

Unless there is a problem with the 5th car cab the train attendant uses the 5th car to work from. Also when the OPTO went into affect on the Blue Line they moved some of the train attendants to Inspectors so they could ride around on the trains, they are suposed to ride the 4th-6th cars if they wish to "have an employee presence" on the train and make passengers feel safe. However there is too many times they are riding shot-gun with the operator in the head cab. They are not an all trains seems to be every other one.
Here is something to ponder just pay rates to explain my theory EXAMPLE ONLY:the train attendants make lets say $14hr and a reg motorperson (Orange/Red) $18hr , Now the Operator on the Blue Line makes $26hr and an inspector makes $35 hr. I don't know the rates of pay for the job use this as an EXAMPLE ONLY. Not to be ACCURATE.

Well if you take the Blue Line operators at $26 hr and the inspectors at $35 and drop the pay of the operators starting pay to 18hr and remove the extra instructors the ride the train and are at all the stations on the line during the rush hours. You would have the money to put back the train attendants. Not sure if my math figures right. But 40 hrs @ $35 T inspector FT = $1500Wk . If you split that in half you could hire 2 train attendants and get rid of the one high priced inspectors.

I hope you understand wht I wrote if not I am sorry and have a problem getting my thoughts written out properly. But does this make sense? Please correct me or your opinion. :wink:
Farewell old friend thanks for the memories.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:23 pm

Everyone: Interesting topic about OPTO on the MBTA Rapid Transit lines here-is all equipment on the Red,Orange and Blue lines equipped for OPTO? I remember they all had full-width cabs.
By the way-the job title "Guard" is a British term I believe - British Rail and London Transport referred to their Conductors jobs that way along with the TTC Subway in Toronto.
Will the MBTA eliminate all "Guard" jobs in the near future? MACTRAXX
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby jamesinclair » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:38 pm

Any concerns about safety are just idiotic or obvious screens for the real issue which is that the unions want more money.

The article mentions that only ONE other system in the US has more than one train operator. Are there door deaths in NYC? How about in DC, with much, much longer trains?

Obviously NOT.

They need to remove all the guards from their current duty. Fire 33% to save money. Assign 33% to new trains so that we can increase service (headways) at NO cost, and move 33% to inspector duties (check POP fares, walk the cars looking for problems)


Many of the current guards dont give a crap about what their doors are doing anyway. Ive seen many guards on the 2nd greenline car just push the button, without even looking at the mirror. Theyll keep pushing it until it closes (as someone gets whacked repeatedly by the door)
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby StevieC48 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:44 pm

Real quick note on OPTO, I know I mentioned this little tid bid about the Type 8 in another thread, that the Type 8's have a door set up switch (drum switch) that can enable the lead car 8 & 8 to operate the doors and get rid of the second operator if they wanted to really cause issuses with passengers and unions.
Farewell old friend thanks for the memories.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby obienick » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:51 pm

jamesinclair wrote:Any concerns about safety are just idiotic or obvious screens for the real issue which is that the unions want more money.


CORRECT!!!!

The Chicago El runs upwards of 10-car trains (similar car size to those on the blue line) with OPTO. Not only are train lengths much longer than here in Boston, but the El goes through some pretty sketchy parts of town, all night long.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby dieciduej » Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:13 am

I believe the "Train Attendant" position has been somewhat eliminated. I can not find the 2009 job lottery paperwork but the new position was "Train Operator/Train Attendant." All will be trained as operators. That said I have noticed, on photo runs, that attendants going to Forest Hills were operators going back to Oak Grove. Present attendants that are not operator qualified, for whatever reason, will remain attendants and maybe a move to CSA. So with everyone being trained as TOs then the move is on to OPTO.

The Green Line is different although. You have the typical Type 7 & 8 combination, which will have some disagreement working together. Present doctrine is to split the pair and send them as two singles. OPTO would force the pair to be taken out of service. So I do not see OPTO for the Green Line as soon as for the rapid transit lines.

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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby Arborway » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:31 am

The T can't get rid of the guard in the second (or third, if that day ever comes again) Green Line car because it would mean giving up all hope of collecting fares.
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Re: Official T OPTO Discussion(One Man Subway Ops)

Postby obienick » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:19 pm

Arborway wrote:The T can't get rid of the guard in the second (or third, if that day ever comes again) Green Line car because it would mean giving up all hope of collecting fares.


They could have designed the Charlie Card machines to give a proof-of-payment "ticket." That "ticket" could be dispensed by only one machine at each surface-level stop and the T could have a transit police officer go around and randomly check if passengers were carrying their "ticket". I feel that the fines would have to be increased for fare evasion, though (and still should be anyway.
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