Green Line Expansion Beyond Lechmere

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Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:15 pm

PraiseX6 wrote:(I know I'm going to get bagged for this but) - This fact I just learned today - the bridge after NS to Lechmere (I'm not sure if this includes before / after science park) - Can only allow 3 trains at once due to a weight restriction. This is ALSO a huge factor in deciding what to do.


That shouldn't be much of an issue. If the Viaduct could handle 3 or more feeder lines out of Lechmere causing traffic backups in the old days, and 3-car trains at isolated times with modern equipment...then 2 extensions with much lighter ridership than the westside branches shouldn't be a problem. You'd be extending the E one stop and adding another line (be it Brattle Loop-ing or another line. 2 lines have terminated there at various times in the past, so there's nothing inherently new about tapping the extra capacity on the northside end.

The Viaduct is a multi-segment span and trains would not be riding bumper-to-bumper across the entire length, and it does already get quite a bit of traffic during Garden events when they do sometimes run Lechmere-Brattle Loop cars to disperse the crowds in addition to higher-headway E's. The Viaduct is also long-overdue for structural renovations since they disappointingly skipped all but the most cosmetic concrete fixes when the line was closed for North Station relocation. They will have to do something a bit more substantial to the crumbling concrete on the underside of the structure when the extensions open. I would actually think multiple-train vibrations pose a bigger challenge to the old concrete than weight...it's a hefty structure, but it needs a thorough resurfacing before chunks start falling off the underside.
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Postby Guilford Guy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:30 pm

What about the loop at boylston?
If they rebuild it where the historic cars are now then passengers cans till disembark at park... will cost more money :-(
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Postby Charliemta » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:53 pm

There never was a loop at Boylston Station. The abandoned tracks parallel each other and dead-end in the abandoned tunnel south of the station
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Postby Guilford Guy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:05 pm

Charliemta wrote:There never was a loop at Boylston Station. The abandoned tracks parallel each other and dead-end in the abandoned tunnel south of the station

MC1131- Notice this post...
Anyways, although it might not be as easy as a loop they could make it a switchback just like at NS...
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Postby Epsilon » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:12 pm

Guilford Guy wrote:
Charliemta wrote:There never was a loop at Boylston Station. The abandoned tracks parallel each other and dead-end in the abandoned tunnel south of the station

MC1131- Notice this post...
Anyways, although it might not be as easy as a loop they could make it a switchback just like at NS...

Though, currently I believe the MBTA plans to demolish the Tremont tunnel to build a loop for the Silver Line Phase 3.
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Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:32 pm

Epsilon wrote:
Guilford Guy wrote:
Charliemta wrote:There never was a loop at Boylston Station. The abandoned tracks parallel each other and dead-end in the abandoned tunnel south of the station

MC1131- Notice this post...
Anyways, although it might not be as easy as a loop they could make it a switchback just like at NS...

Though, currently I believe the MBTA plans to demolish the Tremont tunnel to build a loop for the Silver Line Phase 3.


In the T's dreams. Getting increasingly unlikely that will ever get funded after it was placed on hold. And the most recent plans called for building the new tunnel under the trolley tunnel, presumably because cut-and-cover demolition/reconstruction/widening would be too disruptive to the street level and may not work with building foundations.
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Postby PraiseX6 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:31 pm

I have huge updates on this topic! First off the E line will go to Medford. Next the new line will be called the "S" line - It will also go to Heath Street but will loop at Sullivan Square!! Every other line will go to North Station and then reserve from their. This is coming from a source who is on the T community plan - Some exciting news!
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Postby octr202 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:48 pm

Sullivan?? The only options that were in the planning process (The MIS/AA) were West Medford and Union Sq. Anything else, if the T is planning on tapping federal funds for this, would require starting over with environmental review and alternatives analysis.
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Postby sery2831 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:50 pm

That is interesting. I don't see turning more than one line at North Station though. With it being a turn back, at peak times only so many cars can turn in a short time. The line would get backed up with cars waiting to get into the yard. I am sure the B will turn at Gov't Center forever :-)
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Postby PraiseX6 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:48 pm

sery2831 wrote:That is interesting. I don't see turning more than one line at North Station though. With it being a turn back, at peak times only so many cars can turn in a short time. The line would get backed up with cars waiting to get into the yard. I am sure the B will turn at Gov't Center forever :-)


I'm going to disagree, I can explain later to you. Sorry but I do trust this source John :) - He is on the Community board

But to sum up my main point and DRIVE home my main points.
-Sullivan Square will be the LOOP (I'm not sure if thats the STATION name - it could be Union Street but it's going to be in the Sullivan Area)
-The new line is the "S" line - I voted for the DAVID line - He said no :(
-The "S" line will go down to same ROUTE as the "E" line - to Heath Street!
-E line will GO the FULL route (extra service will be added)
-ALL other lines will turn at North Station!



Possible Up coming Projects/Done Projects:

-Bye Bye Bowdoin! (Sorry to see you go but ROUTE will end at Govn't) - They will be expanding the platforms at that station!

Also I'm invited to the next meeting which will occur in October I think. I'd be happy to voice some options from you guys voted. I told the guy FIRST order of business.. I'm not digging the "S" line name lol.
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Postby sery2831 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:03 pm

I don't doubt your source one bit David. But look at the time it takes to turn a two car train on a stub track vs. a loop. Then look at service at 3-5 mins per line. Only two trains can turn at once, the others will have to hold the main delaying cars going beyond North Station. From a logistical stand point, that would be foolish to do.
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Postby PraiseX6 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:36 pm

John, foolish and the T? :) Those two words don't go together!
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Postby octr202 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:57 pm

I'm interested to see where your source is going with this. The output of the Major Investment Study/Alternatives Analysis, completed in 2006, was steered towards the Green Line to West Medford (more likely to get cut back to Medford Hillside) and Union Square option. There are about six alternatives in the study, and none of them involved service to or via Sullivan Square. To make that change now would require redoing years of study and review that is required by federal law in order to qualify for federal funding. Additionally, of all the corridors involved, I can't see the need for Green Line service between Lechmere and Sullivan Square. If anything, that's an Urban Ring corridor -- the Green Line extension is focused on bringing rail transit to areas along the New Hampshire main that are lacking rail service. Sullivan isn't lacking in rail service.
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Postby MBTA3247 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:45 pm

PraiseX6 wrote:I have huge updates on this topic! First off the E line will go to Medford. Next the new line will be called the "S" line - It will also go to Heath Street but will loop at Sullivan Square!! Every other line will go to North Station and then reserve from their. This is coming from a source who is on the T community plan - Some exciting news!

This is the first I've heard of restoring trolley service to Sullivan Square. How are they gonna get the tracks over to there? The only obvious (and the cheapest) route would be to rebuild the service track down the middle of Washington St, and we all know how much the T loves street-running. Next, why would they run the new line all the way to Heath? The central subway is already jammed, and there doesn't appear to be a need to double service on the E line south of Copley.

Third, as others have already noted, where would they turn the B and D lines at North Station? I think only the Japanese would be able to turn three lines' worth of trains quickly enough to prevent a backup. Last and least, why 'S line'? 'F' or 'G line' would be next, depending on whether the T considers Mattapan-Ashmont to be the F line.
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Postby pete5668 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:11 pm

There will not be an extension to "Meffa." The MBTA cannot afford such an extravagance.
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