North-South Rail Link Discussion

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby hs3730 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:15 pm

jbvb wrote:I would not be at all surprised if NSRL ultimately manifests as a 2-track elevated viaduct over the Rose Kennedy Greenway.


That would eliminate electrification / dual mode costs as well. But would anyone accept a "downtown eyesore" again (never mind the fact that a 2 track rail line blocks a lot less sun than the former 6 lane highway with interchanges, and can be set up to block even less with something akin to DC Metro style construction).
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby ceo » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:05 pm

jbvb wrote:For a while I had one employee taking Commuter Rail/Orange Line between Malden and West Roxbury, but if he couldn't travel in rush hour, he usually worked from home rather than suffer through sparse CR mid-day and evening schedules. The stubbornest employee I ever had rode an express bus in from Waltham, then CR back out to 128 and walked the last 1.5 miles.

Now I'm wondering who these people are. :-) (note: jbvb and I are longtime friends and I used to work for his company.)
I would not be at all surprised if NSRL ultimately manifests as a 2-track elevated viaduct over the Rose Kennedy Greenway.

Ain't gonna happen. We didn't spend >$15 billion getting rid of an ugly elevated viaduct just to put up another one, smaller or not. Also, I'm pretty sure it's actually impossible to route a rail viaduct from the South Station approaches to the Greenway without demolishing the South Station bus terminal, about half of the South Bay interchange, or both.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:18 pm

You'll sooner see the underground maglev completed between Boston and DC than you will an elevated heavy rail viaduct down the Greenway.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby Charliemta » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:You'll sooner see the underground maglev completed between Boston and DC than you will an elevated heavy rail viaduct down the Greenway.


Agreed. Also, the 4F issue of building on official park land would instantly veto it. And, from an engineering standpoint, the posts for an elevated railway would not be able to sit on top of the Central Artery tunnel.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby BandA » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:17 am

Monorail! Should have kept the Central Artery & converted it to transit + elevated park. Why not build an elevated if it saves billions in tunneling costs? Also, it would be cheaper to build Red, Orange, or Green Line between North Station & South Station rather than heavy rail; Use the Grand Junction for linking heavy rail, and bonus no big electrification required.

Depressed big dig is supposed to be able to support up to 6-story building. Also, the big dig & central artery co-existed during construction - therefore there is no reason you couldn't build something in the same position as the original central artery supports.

Back the BB.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby ceo » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:05 am

BandA wrote:Back the BB.

Oh, you're funny.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby rethcir » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:39 pm

Well, traffic is becoming so god awful that there may soon be no choice other than to build the NSRL to help people get around the state more effectively.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby bgl » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:35 pm

BandA wrote:Monorail! Should have kept the Central Artery & converted it to transit + elevated park. Why not build an elevated if it saves billions in tunneling costs? Also, it would be cheaper to build Red, Orange, or Green Line between North Station & South Station rather than heavy rail; Use the Grand Junction for linking heavy rail, and bonus no big electrification required.


There have already been a ton of posts as to why it couldn't work ranging from engineering issues, to political and legal. Building Red/Green/Orange between North and South Stations doesn't address the problem the NSRL is solving. Lastly, the Grand Junction is right out - it will never be able to support the headways needed for RER given the (almost impossible to eliminate) grade crossings. Plus all of that is going to cost a lot of money, too, for basically a half-assed solution.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby Disney Guy » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:55 pm

The Big Dig being able to support an X story building means the building piles and foundation have to go over load bearing parts of the tunnel namely selected spots on the tunnel walls. Not in the middle of the ceiling over the center lane.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby jbvb » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:09 pm

My 2-track elevated prediction is rooted in the fact that the US in general and MA in particular have become a lot poorer than we were in 1950. At some point that will sink in and we'll build what we can afford, rather than gold-plating the proposal and then doing without.

CEO: I believe the requisite 26 feet exists between the cut back Summer St. wing of South Station and the building I think of as Stone & Webster. It even misses the Federal Reserve tower portion.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby rethcir » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:01 am

I have to call you out on this. Here is a chart of real GDP in the USA (adjusted for inflation). https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A939RX0Q048SBEA
Last edited by CRail on Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unnecessary quote removed.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby Teamdriver » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:15 am

Article on comparative tunneling , perhaps something can be gleaned from it......


Deep underground, new NYC train hub slowly takes shape


NEW YORK (AP) — Deep in the bedrock 15 stories below the famous Grand Central Terminal, a cavernous construction site is slowly, and expensively, taking shape as a commuter rail hub that will accommodate more than 150,000 passengers a day.

https://apnews.com/63385266131d4250ac1c ... 0Weekender
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby MACTRAXX » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:12 pm

TD:

This is about the LIRR East Side Access Project - which is billions of dollars over original budget and
years late from the projected first opening date. After the Big Dig fiasco MBTA would not want to
get involved in anything that could have similar results...that one word EXPENSIVE stands out...

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=69427
LIRR Forum East Side Access Discussion - 63 pages 679 posts

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby Dmdogs900 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:53 pm

If the nsrl were to be built and the commuter rail system electrified would it be possible/economical to deck over the tracks out to route 128 and put greenways on top, possibly feeding into the Rose Kennedy greenway.
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Re: North-South Rail Link Discussion

Postby rethcir » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:50 am

Anything's possible, but it'll never be "economical"
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