Old Harvard station

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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby Disney Guy » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:32 am

Does anyone recall from the MTA days:

When trains left the Harvard outbound platform, did they loop (all the way around Eliot Yard?) or did they change ends to go back inbound?

All I remember is waiting for the inbound train and an outbound would rumble in overhead. Then it would rumble out and things would go quiet for a minute or two. Then a train would roll into the inbound part of the station.
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby RailBus63 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:35 am

I wasn't around for the MTA days, but in the MBTA era they changed ends - there was an open area that you could actually see from a passing trackless or bus in the tunnel.
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby MarkBoston » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:01 pm

Disney Guy wrote:Does anyone recall from the MTA days:

When trains left the Harvard outbound platform, did they loop (all the way around Eliot Yard?) or did they change ends to go back inbound?

All I remember is waiting for the inbound train and an outbound would rumble in overhead. Then it would rumble out and things would go quiet for a minute or two. Then a train would roll into the inbound part of the station.


Do you mean it turned around like the way trains still do at Lechmere station?
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby jonnhrr » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:58 pm

As a follow up to Disney Guy's question, when they used the Stadium station for football games, did the trains just pull into the track next to the platform (along what is now JFK st.) and change ends, or did they run around the loop to unload?

(I didn't get to Harvard Sq. much in my younger days but I remember at the Ashmont end I only ever saw trains reversing on the 3 layover tracks just south of tower Q, I don't remember ever seeing a train loop around Codman Yard. So I suspect the same pattern applied at Harvard)

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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby dieciduej » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:34 am

Disney Guy wrote:Does anyone recall from the MTA days:

When trains left the Harvard outbound platform, did they loop (all the way around Eliot Yard?) or did they change ends to go back inbound?

All I remember is waiting for the inbound train and an outbound would rumble in overhead. Then it would rumble out and things would go quiet for a minute or two. Then a train would roll into the inbound part of the station.


Funny you should mention that, the latest issue (Sep/Oct 2009) of Roll Sign, the BSRA's magazine, has a story "Eliot Square and Stadium Station Revisited" by Ed Anderson. Its a great article and pictures of a seldom talked about station. From the article it seems that there was a three track underground turnback and the loop was only used during Harvard football games. If you can get the issue it is a good read.

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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:24 am

dieciduej wrote:
Disney Guy wrote:Does anyone recall from the MTA days:

When trains left the Harvard outbound platform, did they loop (all the way around Eliot Yard?) or did they change ends to go back inbound?

All I remember is waiting for the inbound train and an outbound would rumble in overhead. Then it would rumble out and things would go quiet for a minute or two. Then a train would roll into the inbound part of the station.


Funny you should mention that, the latest issue (Sep/Oct 2009) of Roll Sign, the BSRA's magazine, has a story "Eliot Square and Stadium Station Revisited" by Ed Anderson. Its a great article and pictures of a seldom talked about station. From the article it seems that there was a three track underground turnback and the loop was only used during Harvard football games. If you can get the issue it is a good read.

JoeD


Yeah...after the bi-level approaches from the station evened out at-grade the tunnel was 3-track its entire length into the yard, with the inbound track peeling off at the portal onto the loop. Probably would've been faster to turn on the third track instead of crawling all the way around the loop. The yard was a pretty tight fit around the intersection of JFK St. and Memorial Drive on one side and Eliot Shops on the other so the curves on the loop were sharp and slow.
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby jonnhrr » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:21 pm

Funny you should mention that, the latest issue (Sep/Oct 2009) of Roll Sign, the BSRA's magazine, has a story "Eliot Square and Stadium Station Revisited" by Ed Anderson. Its a great article and pictures of a seldom talked about station. From the article it seems that there was a three track underground turnback and the loop was only used during Harvard football games. If you can get the issue it is a good read.


Just came today! Love that cover, with the #4 work cars and #5 (01400) cars in the blue and gold, didn't realize they were still using Stadium Station in 1967!

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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby Fred Rabin » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:43 pm

I remember Stadium Station and was in it a few times on the way to and from football games. I don't recall ever seeing any signs identifying the station as "Stadium". Were there any?
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby jonnhrr » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:19 am

Fred Rabin wrote:I remember Stadium Station and was in it a few times on the way to and from football games. I don't recall ever seeing any signs identifying the station as "Stadium". Were there any?


As the Rollsign article points out, there were no signs, nor were there any destination signs on the 01400's when they ran to Stadium, they were just signed Harvard. Of course the type 1 - type 4 cars (0600-0700's) never had any kind of destination sign anyway, just the metal plate by the door listing the stations, and that list didn't include stadium either. I guess you just had to know that if there was a Harvard game the trains would be running there.

Of course the 0600/0700 trains did have this really cool map of the system:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanshnookenraggen/346210943/sizes/o/in/set-72157594460286528

Amazing how people managed to get around in those days, without the constant announcements on the trains "entering Harvard" "the destination of this train is Alewife" etc. They had to actually look out of the windows and look for those dingy mosaic station names in those dimly lit stations :-)

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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:20 am

Fred Rabin wrote:I remember Stadium Station and was in it a few times on the way to and from football games. I don't recall ever seeing any signs identifying the station as "Stadium". Were there any?


Don't think so, but when they unlocked the iron gate onto JFK St. from the platform they had a fare collector standing there presumably set up with a sign. People were also probably accustomed to knowing that during a home game that stop would be open.
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Re:

Postby JackRussell » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:16 am

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
theseaandalifesaver wrote:is it walkable from the station?


It's right around the curve. The false cinderblock wall that blocks off the yard tunnel approach and the first third of the Harvard-Holyoke platform starts immediately on the right as a train exits inbound. The yard tunnel is literally on the other side of the station wall where the main entrance is, and Harvard-Holyoke is right on the other side of that. The old stations (both platforms) are now completely isolated from the new station, although also on the other side of the curve.


I ran across this video the other day - a tour of abandoned tunnels, including the old parts of the Harvard Station. Courtesy of the Globe..

http://www.infrastructurist.com/2010/01 ... d-subways/
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby BostonUrbEx » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:11 pm

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but if you're riding an inbound train, right after you leave "New" Harvard, they have a bunch of lights on in Old Harvard. I'm not sure why there's lights set up, but its been this way for days now.
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby tvachon » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:25 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:I don't know if anyone has noticed, but if you're riding an inbound train, right after you leave "New" Harvard, they have a bunch of lights on in Old Harvard. I'm not sure why there's lights set up, but its been this way for days now.


Looked like a pipe was leaking bad when we sopped just outside for a red
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby Gerry6309 » Fri May 03, 2013 3:08 pm

tvachon wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:I don't know if anyone has noticed, but if you're riding an inbound train, right after you leave "New" Harvard, they have a bunch of lights on in Old Harvard. I'm not sure why there's lights set up, but its been this way for days now.


Looked like a pipe was leaking bad when we sopped just outside for a red

A Red?

How about a Stop- No Code?

The main difference between the capacity of the old Harvard and the New Harvard is that trains entered and departed the old Harvard at running speed, not through a protracted 10 mph curve. The new station should have been below the old one, with a long sweeping deep curve under the coop and Cambridge Common. We saved a few million on construction, and pay for it daily in delays!
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Re: Old Harvard station

Postby Disney Guy » Fri May 03, 2013 9:25 pm

Gerry6309 wrote:The main difference between the capacity of the old Harvard and the New Harvard is that trains entered and departed the old Harvard at running speed, not through a protracted 10 mph curve. The new station should have been below the old one, with a long sweeping deep curve under the coop and Cambridge Common. We saved a few million on construction, and pay for it daily in delays!

A significant advantage of the existing Harvard Station layout is allowing a single shared entrance to serve all trains and all buses without too complicated ramp and/or elevator requirements. The two train tunnels and the two bus tunnels all face a common (two level) concourse. To have the Red Line cross under the bus tunnels and then go under the Coop and Cambridge Common would either require a third level down for the trains or a complete rebuild of the bus tunnels to be on one level. The latter would then require bus passengers on one side to go down (walk under the bus tunnerls) and then up again to get to the exit, or require a new street kiosk.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.
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