Any online photos of Neoplan TT’s?

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Postby octr202 » Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:58 am

4108 was in service this morning on Rt. 73 (as was 4117 on Rt. 71) -- first time I've seen something other than 4116 & 4117 running. Since Friday, none of the three (4108, 4116, 4117) that I've seen in revenue service have had working destination signs.

And the cardboard sign department hasn't made it to North Cambridge yet.

Anyone think that the Neoplans should have had rollsigns in them? :wink:
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
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Postby jwhite07 » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:07 am

I like those LED destination signs much better... when they work.

4110 is also supposed to be in service, though I've yet to see it (apparently octr202 hasn't either).

At various times in the past several weeks I've seen 4103, 4108 and 4114 outside Watertown Carhouse... so new they hadn't even had poles installed yet. Last time I swung by there two weekends ago they had been moved inside. Dunno what's hanging around Watertown now.
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Postby octr202 » Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:30 pm

Nope, i haven't seen 4110 "on the street" anywhere.

On Sunday there was (as there has been) one Neoplan parked behind the Watertown carhouse. From Galen St. as I drove by I couldn't tell if it had either a) poles, or b) T logos (meaning its accepted).

The LEDs are amazingly nice when working, but I think I'd rather have a good rollsign (especially with how some of the new ones look) rather than an LED if the computerized ones seem to not work for one reason or another so often.
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
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Postby crash575 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:33 pm

I stopped by the Watertown car house today; I saw 4107 out on the loop. There were multiple wire crews installing wire right into the car house. They had already run wire out to Galen St. (where the bus shacks are). There were five TT lined up inside (I couldn't get there numbers without looking like a terrorist) I walked out back and there were two TTs 4109 and 4120. Like was mentioned in a previous post they were missing their poles and skirts. I got a few good pictures.
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Postby jwhite07 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:20 pm

The wire from Watertown Square across the river to Watertown Carhouse has been there for many years. I believe at some time in the past, the 71 trackless trolley actually terminated at Watertown Carhouse instead of the square, as do the 57 and express buses, but I'm not sure exactly when that change took place. It was quite a few years ago, anyway.
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Postby crash575 » Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:16 pm

just to clarify my previous post. There is currently one wire that comes in from galen st. that loops around and exits, that’s been there forever. They are wiring a new wire that runs inside the carhouse and out to the street (i do not think it connects to the loop, but i may be mistaken).
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New Trackless Trolleys

Postby flyermike » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:46 am

Has anyone heard anything more about extending the Route 71 up to Newton Corner to meet with the Mass Pike buses? Also, I have heard that the MBTA is planning on keeping 10-15 Flyers for revenue service, and 4 are ice cutters, for several more years after the 28 Neoplans are running. Is that true? I was riding the 77A yesterday and saw a CNG bus running on the 96 Route, running under the wires on Mass Avenue - I am not sure where it started from, but it couldn't have picked up passengers inside the tunnel could it?
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Postby jwhite07 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:49 am

Has anyone heard anything more about extending the Route 71 up to Newton Corner to meet with the Mass Pike buses?


It is included in the 2003 Program for Mass Transportation, but was assessed as a low-priority project. Seems unlikely that this one will ever get out of the idea bag.

Interesting sighting of the CNG bus on Mass Ave. Perhaps the T is relaxing a bit on the idea of running CNG buses under trackless wires. That does seem to me to be a bit paranoid, as it's unlikely (although admittedly possible) that both wires would come down just as a CNG bus was running underneath. I believe Seattle runs CNGs under their ETB wires without qualms.

Still, it would not have served the Harvard Square Tunnel. There are signs prohibiting CNG buses from entering the tunnel at each portal. The reason for that is if a CNG bus had developed a gas leak somewhere, the gas, which is lighter than air, would collect at the top of the tunnel. The next trackless to go through there could make a very big spark, indeed.
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Postby flyermike » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:41 pm

Hi.

Right after the 96 CNG bus, there was another 96 Diesel bus, I think perhaps the CNG wasn't actually picking up passengers, It couldn't have gone into the tunnel with the signs posted.
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Postby jwhite07 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:01 pm

Dunno what I was thinking of with Seattle. I checked a roster and couldn't find that Seattle has any CNG buses at all.

Here is a report regarding San Francisco MUNI's Alternative Fuels Pilot Program... scroll down to the section on Vehicle Safety Concerns:

http://www.sfmuni.com/rid/rptpub/documents/altpilot.htm#_Toc9319926

The report mentions that MBTA had the same concerns MUNI expressed regarding operating CNG under trolleybus wires and in tunnels (San Francisco has lots of both!). MBTA tries to segregate CNG buses from electric trolleybus routes and tunnels... MUNI seems to have simply decided to not operate CNG buses at all.
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Postby octr202 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:10 pm

As to keeping some of the Flyers after the Neoplans are in place, I would doubt it. I'm sure that they will keep a chunk of them until they are certain that the Neoplans have all the bugs worked out, and until the "loan" to the Silver Line is over, but beyond that I'd find it unlikely for a few reasons:

1. The Flyers, while still sound, are 30 years old. For the parts that do break, pretty soon parts will be unavailable. This is one of the two things that kills the productive life of a transit vehicle that is mechanically sound - when you can't find enough parts to keep them running.

2. Of course, the other killer is structural decay. The Flyers have been getting a salt bath for nearly 30 years now too. I'll admit that they look to be in pretty good shape for buses their age, but I bet there's some pretty serious rust going on on some of them. I would be totally unsurprised if that's what has sidelined some of the retired Flyers.

The T usually cites a "20% spare ratio," meaning that they order 20% more vehicles than needed for peak service. Supposedly, peak hour service out of North Cambridge requires somewhere around 22 buses, which puts the order of 28 right in line.
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
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Postby Robert Paniagua » Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:32 am

CS, I don't know about this, but you might want to consider shuttering this thread since this mostly covers buses too. Just a thought....
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Postby Pete » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:13 pm

octr202 wrote:Of course, the other killer is structural decay. The Flyers have been getting a salt bath for nearly 30 years now too. I'll admit that they look to be in pretty good shape for buses their age, but I bet there's some pretty serious rust going on on some of them. I would be totally unsurprised if that's what has sidelined some of the retired Flyers.


It's been about five years since I rode the 71 daily, and at that time there were instances of holes in the floor through which water would splash on wet days. The end for these buses is welcome and should have come long ago.
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Postby Ron Newman » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:25 pm

I think we can live with having one bus thread and one trackless-trolley thread -- they are somewhat different types of vehicles.

(Perhaps the moderator can rename this one to "The trackless-trolley thread".)
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Postby CS » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:30 pm

You guys will have to deal with the bus thread situation for now until I can come up with a solution. Just please keep BUS topics in the bus thread. I now realize that the current set up may not work anymore.
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