New Coaches to replace all existing single active coaches

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New Coaches to replace all existing single active coaches

Postby trains18 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Anyone know if this is just the mbb's the 1500 series or the bombardiers too the 1600 series. Future Order for New Coaches:
The MBTA anticipates issuing an RFP later in 2019 for 180-220 new bi-level cars which would replace all existing active single level cars. The MBTA issued a Request for Information in February 2019 to get feedback from potential manufacturers before issuing a formal Request for Proposals (RFP)
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby Trinnau » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:49 pm

It says to replace all of them. 200s, 300s, 500s, 600s, 1500s, 1600s. According to the roster on http://www.transithistory.org/roster/ there were a total of 274 single-levels among the various types at one time. But with a handful scrapped and most of the 500s retired, a number around 200 makes sense. If you consider that a bi-level is about 150% capacity of a single-level, a 1-for-1 replacement will provide the MBTA with increased seating capacity.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby Backshophoss » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:29 pm

If there's Federal $$$$ involved CRRC is OUT,BBD has QC issues,ROTEM as sailed back to japan,along with Nippon- Sharyo.
Kawasaki is booked solid right now. Siemens is also booked solid with the Caltrain/Midwest fleet and Amtrak's Charger order and VIA's corridor order.
Very slim pickings right now.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby trains18 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:52 pm

Backshophoss wrote:If there's Federal $$$$ involved CRRC is OUT,BBD has QC issues,ROTEM as sailed back to japan,along with Nippon- Sharyo.
Kawasaki is booked solid right now. Siemens is also booked solid with the Caltrain/Midwest fleet and Amtrak's Charger order and VIA's corridor order.
Very slim pickings right now.


It's going to be at least 2-4 years before the single level coaches will be completely replaced, knowing that the RFP wont happen until late fall/early winter if they can find and approve a contract with a company that isn't rotem. Kawasaki is good. What is QC stand for?
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby newpylong » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:55 pm

Quality Control.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby RenegadeMonster » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:15 am

This is really good news if true.

While we wont see any new coaches in service for at least 5 years likely, its a very good step in the right direction.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:33 pm

Between dwell time increases and lack of accessibility through the train for all, the MBTA should stick to its original plan of not ordering more bi-levels and just order more single levels. Wide 2x2 seating, while they're at it.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby RenegadeMonster » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:47 pm

I don't think that has been their plan for quite some time to order any more single level coaches, especially wide 2x2 seating ones. It was very clear to me when I spoke to Keolis Management last year that going forward, only Bi-level coaches would be ordered.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:36 pm

Single levels certainly were the plan up until a year or two ago. It would be up to the MBTA, not Keolis, and their only reasoning at the time was for accessibility.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby nomis » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:06 pm

There’s no reason why a Bombardier MLV-III for the MBtA isn’t a good fit. Third iteration of a proven design with hundreds of trailers and cab cars in New Jersey, Maryland/DC and Canada. The seat count isn’t as much as a Kawasaki or Rotem Coach, but ordering off of what will be a tooled production line already will probably be the cheapest option.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby chrisf » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:21 pm

nomis wrote:There’s no reason why a Bombardier MLV-III for the MBtA isn’t a good fit. Third iteration of a proven design with hundreds of trailers and cab cars in New Jersey, Maryland/DC and Canada. The seat count isn’t as much as a Kawasaki or Rotem Coach, but ordering off of what will be a tooled production line already will probably be the cheapest option.

The Bombardier MLV coaches seat only about 20 passengers more than the existing Bombardier single level coaches, which are about 50 seats short of the Kawasaki/Rotem cars. MBTA desperately needs more capacity, so unless they’re going to buy more coaches and run longer trains the Bombardier MLVs don’t sound like the right option, although they do add quite a few seats over the 500/1500 series cars.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:59 pm

The "given" is MN,LIRR,and ConnDOT will order the BBD ML-II's with thier cab cars setup their Airbrake/ASC/ACSES systems
MBTA should order the same,BUT lay off the custom options to be added to the cars,follow the combined spec for the cars
as MARC did, KEEP it simple,PLEASE!!
And figure on a complete "nut/bolt/wire" inspection before the testing the cars after delivery to BET. :wink:
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby NH2060 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:39 pm

There's absolutely no reason why the T should order the BBD MLVs. The current design -which has been in use for almost 30 years on the Commuter Rail, mind you- has clearly worked well enough for the T to continue ordering more batches every X amount of years. Since they carry more passengers than the BBD cars and the CR network doesn't have the loading gauge restrictions that the NYC commuter rails have it just makes sense for them to buy more of the same (only from Kawasaki like they should have done last time :wink: )
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Postby MBTA3247 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:56 am

BostonUrbEx wrote:Between dwell time increases and lack of accessibility through the train for all, the MBTA should stick to its original plan of not ordering more bi-levels and just order more single levels. Wide 2x2 seating, while they're at it.

The only MBTA plan I'm familiar with that sounds anything like that was to not order more bi-levels from Rotem. Buying more flats would be absolute insanity in the face of the system's ongoing ridership growth.
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