Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

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Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby benboston » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:28 pm

A few days ago I saw an article in the Globe. It was talking about how the idea of a monorail at Logan is seriously being considered. Such a consideration would be nice on top of the fact that the only vehicles that will be allowed to go directly to the terminals will be buses soon enough. This should help to ease up traffic, and it will create an even higher transit ridership to Logan. Which is interesting because the article also mentioned that Logan has one of the highest percentages of riders who ride public transit to the airport in the country. Also, if the number of people riding on the blue line to the airport increases, as a result, this would even more so warrant the idea of extending the blue line to Charles/MGH as the blue line is currently the only of the rapid transit lines in Boston that are growing its ridership.

It made reference to how the Silver Line is a direct connection between Logan and South Station. So, I was wondering what it would take to transform the Green Line tunnel at North Station into a bus/green line tunnel much like the transit tunnel in Downtown Seattle. This would make for much easier connections between North Station and Logan. Also, this would be nice for extending the mileage of the Silver Line that is actual BRT, separated from cars.

Heres the article:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2019/01/19/logan-airport-due-for-huge-makeover/71QPB4tddgrIxRj5xfQ7NO/story.html
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby MBTA3247 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:44 am

It would be rather expensive to add new access ramps and tunnels to connect into the Green Line, and I doubt it's worth it, as you'd still have to use the existing highway tunnels to get over from Logan. Might as well just turn the buses on Canal St.

For what it's worth, the Seattle transit tunnel is going light rail-only in the near future to speed up service. It's pathetically slow currently because of speed restriction on the buses.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby rethcir » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:03 am

They are going to divert uber/lyft dropoffs to central parking? That's ridiculous
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby BandA » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:38 pm

Yes, are they going to carve out a loop inside central parking? Will this also apply to the general public dropping off/picking up passengers? Are they going to charge a fee to drop/pickup/uber/lyft?

I guess if you can't get to the airport that will reduce passenger overcrowding - people will jam the highways & fly from PVD.
Last edited by CRail on Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby benboston » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:13 pm

They say that they aren't going to allow anything besides buses curbside. I think that this won't end too badly because it already has around 30% of travelers coming by way of transit.
Last edited by CRail on Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby BandA » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:49 pm

The other 70% should be punished
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby benboston » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:36 am

For example, I am going to flying out of Logan soon. We will be taking the Fitchburg Line into North Station. Then, we will be taking an Uber because taking into account the connection between either orange and blue or green and blue and then the shuttle bus at Logan, we will be cutting it too close to our flight's departure.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby Disney Guy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:42 am

Many airports have trams of one description or another to connect their various terminal buildings and/or gate concourses, One of those might make sense connecting Logan Airport terminals to Airport Station. Or maybe just one central spot at Logan to Airport Station.

I would not favor adding a loop for all Blue Line trains to make a stop in Logan Airport,k which idea has been suggested before.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby Charliemta » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:29 pm

The elevated rail system at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport is awesome. Logan needs something exactly like that, and, yes, it should connect all the terminals directly to the Blue Line Airport station.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby benboston » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:17 pm

Or the Blue Line could be moved so that there is a central station in the middle of the airport so that walking from the train to the airport is feasible (see Seattle Link). This would simplify the whole process so that there aren't any transfers involved. People perceive more progress when they are moving regardless of if the total time spent going from point A to B is less including the waiting.

Blue - New Alignment
White - Old Alignment
Black Dot- New Station

Screen Shot 2019-02-10 at 8.20.20 PM.png
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby Red Wing » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:29 pm

How much time would your proposal add to commuter times? I do agree with adding some type of non bus transport between the terminals, blueline, car rentals and maybe the boats and a new bus station for the Logan Express/ Silver Line.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby diburning » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:23 am

benboston wrote:For example, I am going to flying out of Logan soon. We will be taking the Fitchburg Line into North Station. Then, we will be taking an Uber because taking into account the connection between either orange and blue or green and blue and then the shuttle bus at Logan, we will be cutting it too close to our flight's departure.


Another solution could be to get off at Porter and take the red line to the silver line at South Station. A second solution would be to get off at North Station, take the Orange Line to Back Bay, and then take the Massport Shuttle from the Copley Square - St James Ave stop (costs $7.50, or $3.00 if you have a Charlie Card, credit/debit cards only)

Back in the day, you could have walked outside at North Station, walked a block down Nashua st, and grabbed a water taxi at Spaulding Rehab that would get you to Logan.

But, keeping with the topic of this thread, yes, I would agree that northside connections to Logan aren't great.

benboston wrote:Or the Blue Line could be moved so that there is a central station in the middle of the airport so that walking from the train to the airport is feasible (see Seattle Link). This would simplify the whole process so that there aren't any transfers involved. People perceive more progress when they are moving regardless of if the total time spent going from point A to B is less including the waiting.

Blue - New Alignment
White - Old Alignment
Black Dot- New Station

Screen Shot 2019-02-10 at 8.20.20 PM.png


How would you get the blue line under the runway? It's all marshland, and I highly doubt that Massport would allow for the runway to be closed long enough to drop in a prefabricated tunnel. If they bore a tunnel into the bedrock, then that would be one hell of a grade. Obviously you can't have anything elevated near the runway so that option is out.

Also, transfers would still be necessary if the blue line only had a central station at the airport. All of the terminals are far enough apart where walking between them isn't feasible, especially if carrying luggage. Terminal B is especially far away from the central parking core. Even if you add stations at every terminal or between terminals, there's no feasible way to add a useful blue line stop to Terminal B due to its shape.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:51 am

The easiest solution would be to build a "Y"-shaped underground APM, using similar technology to the ones at Denver, Dulles, etc.

At one end, you have the rental car lot and the water shuttles. From there, it loops through Airport station and then bifurcates, with some trains going left to Terminal E before stopping at Terminal C, while other trains hang right and hit terminal A, followed by Terminal B. A third routing would service only the top "forks" of the "Y", running from terminal C to terminal B via E and A, with an extra stop in-between E and A for Central Parking/Rideshares/The Airport Hilton.

My rationale is this: Terminals C and B already connect via pedestrian access, so there's no need to sink a tunnel under that incredibly crowded land to the southeast of Central Parking, and it lets you build the "C" station more or less in between C and E, and build the "B" station under the access roads to the southern half of that terminal, which is far more accommodating of a ROW coming off of A.

As for sticking the rental lot on a spur, my rationale is to prioritize direct access from Airport Station to the terminals, and eliminating the rental lot as an intermediate stop has the potential to save minutes of precious dwell time off of the trip between the Blue Line and the terminals. If they're going to spend the money on this, it's silly to do so if they aren't serious about making it an Uber-killer and trying to usurp the silver line. If the APM can get you from Airport to your terminal in under 5 minutes, then the Blue Line is suddenly the fastest and most way to get to the airport, again, and it opens the door to things like the Red-Blue connector and more.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby ceo » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:19 pm

I'm still holding out for an aerial gondola that makes a one-directional loop, with stations at Airport, Terminals E, C, B/A and the rental car center and back to Airport. I've no idea if such a thing would have the necessary capacity, but it would be really cool.
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Re: Better Transit to/from Downtown and Logan + At Logon

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:12 pm

There's rumors that it may actually end up being TWO systems, with a pre-security peoplemover to connect the terminals, parking, Blue Line, etc, and a DFW-style post-security peoplemover of some sort to connect Terminal E with A, B, and C making Logan compatible with internal transfers in order to make it more appealing as a domestic hub for international travel a la SFO or SeaTac.

Maybe one of them can be that aerial ropeway...
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