Remembering the 01400s

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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:21 pm

I'd say the 01500s (and in the far future 01700s as well) have a better chance of being future work units as being single units, which provides added flexibility.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby CRail » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:29 pm

Robert Paniagua wrote:Yeah, there you go, that would be ideal. Shore Line (Connecticut) Trolley Museum could take them, since I really liked them, so that would be cool for such museums to take them

If the cars will be saved for posterity it will likely be by the T should they decide to start caring about such. I don't speak for the Shore Line Trolley Museum nor am I a member, but I know they do have a finite capacity. Seashore's capacity only exists until more track is built, which is something that is in progress. I can tell you though, that it would take our nation's top salesmen to get our board and our membership to agree to 4 more identical 75ft subway cars. I can't even argue in favor of that, and I speak in favor of almost all of our acquisitions.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:I'd say the 01500s (and in the far future 01700s as well) have a better chance of being future work units as being single units, which provides added flexibility.

I have a hunch these cars are not capable of such operation any longer. From what I've heard (which realistically is no more reliable than a rumor), the extra stuff has been cannibalized. I've always argued that Seashore should get a pair of 01500's instead of 01600's so that they could be split if need be. I've learned since that such might not be the case, unfortunately. Naturally this could be reversed, but I don't know to what extent would be necessary.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:43 pm

Well written CR,

Would Seashore take them to cannibalize for parts?
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:07 pm

CRail wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:I'd say the 01500s (and in the far future 01700s as well) have a better chance of being future work units as being single units, which provides added flexibility.

I have a hunch these cars are not capable of such operation any longer. From what I've heard (which realistically is no more reliable than a rumor), the extra stuff has been cannibalized. I've always argued that Seashore should get a pair of 01500's instead of 01600's so that they could be split if need be. I've learned since that such might not be the case, unfortunately. Naturally this could be reversed, but I don't know to what extent would be necessary.

Are the single unit 01500/01700s now converted into permanent pairs, as I assume?
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby MBTA3247 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:10 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
CRail wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:I'd say the 01500s (and in the far future 01700s as well) have a better chance of being future work units as being single units, which provides added flexibility.

I have a hunch these cars are not capable of such operation any longer. From what I've heard (which realistically is no more reliable than a rumor), the extra stuff has been cannibalized. I've always argued that Seashore should get a pair of 01500's instead of 01600's so that they could be split if need be. I've learned since that such might not be the case, unfortunately. Naturally this could be reversed, but I don't know to what extent would be necessary.

Are the single unit 01500/01700s now converted into permanent pairs, as I assume?

Wouldn't cannibalizing anything on those cars besides the B-end controls would require the addition of new connections between cars to make up for the missing equipment? If so, it's probably sufficiently work-intensive that you wouldn't just casually do it to random cars as they came in for maintenance, you'd do it during a fleet-wide overhaul. I haven't heard anything about that happening to the 01500s when they were overhauled, nor with the current 01700 overhaul.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:19 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
CRail wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:I'd say the 01500s (and in the far future 01700s as well) have a better chance of being future work units as being single units, which provides added flexibility.

I have a hunch these cars are not capable of such operation any longer. From what I've heard (which realistically is no more reliable than a rumor), the extra stuff has been cannibalized. I've always argued that Seashore should get a pair of 01500's instead of 01600's so that they could be split if need be. I've learned since that such might not be the case, unfortunately. Naturally this could be reversed, but I don't know to what extent would be necessary.

Are the single unit 01500/01700s now converted into permanent pairs, as I assume?


No. The 01500's when they were rebuilt in the 1980's simply had their second cabs taken out. The 01700's were built with only one cab. The coupler hardware I think is a little different and has a more permanent assembly over the top of the usual coupler adapters since there's never a reason to de-mate them. But that assembly can easily be removed with tools to enable traditional coupling. Either make can still run in an odd-numbered consists, even with ATO (how reliably, I don't know). The only restriction for the 1-cab setup would be that they can't reverse ends in "true" singles operation, only loop (which is only possible on the post-1983 Red Line on a yard-to-yard run from Cabot to Codman). But that's largely semantic since they'd never ever do that in revenue service and probably never in work service either. Even in an emergency/accident where a pairs would need to be decoupled on the tracks to be moved they'd be towed by another consist.

Were they to modify one of the 01500's into a special-task work car, it would still be coupled to another car for moves. Systems redundancy is still important even if singles are operationally possible. But that's where the 01500's come in handy...you can have your radically-altered 01500 powered MOW car on one half of the consist and just a regular 01500 on the other half for reverse moves and power redundancy. Mix and match work car pairs as necessary. Or, they could hook up an actual odd-numbered work consist if they need to bring along an unpowered trailer or something.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:37 pm

Thanks for the info. So the 01700s have a "semi-permanent" (in NYCT language) connection between cars that could be converted into a standard coupler if needed.

NYCT has long preferred single units for work duty, such as R17/21/22s and most recently World's Fair R33s. But paired Main Line R33s, R32s, R40Ms and R42s have been used as well. CTA uses selected 2400-series pairs as work units.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:11 pm

One of the reasons why the 01500's were ordered with single capability is that the Red Line was still nearly 20 years away in the mid-60's from having all its platforms extended to 6-car length. 4-car was the max allowable, and off-peak and weekends there were deuces running the line. Plus the Northwest extension's ultimate routing was still not settled. There were two options for going to Alewife: the original BERy/MTA proposed alignment of subway under Mt. Auburn St. to East Watertown (i.e. the spot where the 71 and 73 trackless lines diverge right by the Watertown and Belmont town lines) and then going partially on the surface up the Watertown Branch to Alewife...or the Mass Ave. alignment to Porter. The final alignment didn't coalesce in Mass Ave.'s favor until later on because of the debate over whether to include Davis or cut right over to Alewife from Porter along the Fitchburg Line ROW. Had the East Watertown alignment been chosen old Harvard Station would've remained in-service with the extension's tunnel simply being built off the existing yard leads, instead of all that being abandoned in favor of the new curve through Harvard Square.

It's possible because of the layout of the old Harvard station that they wouldn't have been able to fully extend the platform to 6-car length. It was a tight, tight little station hemmed in by the bi-level tracks and connecting walkways to the bus tunnel. So the option to do odd-numbered consists was an attractive insurance policy if Harvard (or any other vintage stations that hadn't been infrastructurally studied for platform lengthening by then) could only do a max 5-cars or something like that. The married-pair 01600's would've then been sandwiched with 01500 singles.

Not sure why the 01700's were built as singles, other than I assume that was simply the easiest and simplest-to-maintain way of doing a workalike make 20 years later. 6-car consists weren't in question by then...the 01700's were the supplemental fleet that allowed the Red Line to finally go all-6's-all-the-time.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:57 pm

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:One of the reasons why the 01500's were ordered with single capability is that the Red Line was still nearly 20 years away in the mid-60's from having all its platforms extended to 6-car lengths.


Very true, but let me just add that the perspective at the time was that their line was built for 69 foot cars, which x 4 equals about 278 feet of train. On the other hand, the Main Line was built for 46 foot cars, which x 4 equals about 186 feet (and in actual practice, ran with six-car trains), and the East Boston Line being built for 47 foot cars, which x 4 equals 190 feet. (sizes rounded) Put another way, four Cambridge car's length equaled the length of six Main Line or East Boston cars.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby BowdoinStation » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:03 pm

Back to the 01400's.. When the replacements for the 01500's and 01600's arrive, it would be good to see the 01400's preserved as a 'heritage fleet', and put back to the old (Bluebird) blue, gold band, and white coloring. Probably would not take much to clean em' up, and paint em' up, it appears the foursome have been maintained since their 1994 'retirement'. Take em' out every Sunday morning and generate some interest and revenue when ridership and demands are low. Seems like the new MBTA Director has an interest in the heritage and history of the rails.. The 01400's, to me, never looked good in the 'redbird' paint, love to see Seashore clean their "Redbirds" up, and get them to operate.. They were loud, noisy, stinkin' hot on a summer's day, and huge. In all I have read about the 01400's, almost seems like politics got in the way of building those cars, with flourescent lighting, air conditioning, and comfy seats all removed from the options list..
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby CRail » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:42 pm

BowdoinStation wrote:Take em' out every Sunday morning and generate some interest and revenue when ridership and demands are low.

There is someone in T operations who is interested in doing so. I guess we'll see when the time comes how much pull they really have.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:08 pm

CRail wrote:
BowdoinStation wrote:Take em' out every Sunday morning and generate some interest and revenue when ridership and demands are low.

There is someone in T operations who is interested in doing so. I guess we'll see when the time comes how much pull they really have.

I like that idea, much like NYCT brings out the vintage IND fleet on Sundays during the holiday season. Perhaps the 01400s could run during the holiday season or on days like Patriots Day.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby Finch » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:50 pm

So the 01700s have a "semi-permanent" (in NYCT language) connection between cars that could be converted into a standard coupler if needed.

Actually, the 1700s have a standard coupler between the cars in each married pair. They just aren't uncoupled very often. These standard coupler heads are being replaced by a solid "link bar" as part of the overhaul project.

The 1800s came with a semi-permanent connection from the beginning.

Now back to the topic at hand.
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby Robert Paniagua » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:55 am

CRail wrote:
BowdoinStation wrote:Take em' out every Sunday morning and generate some interest and revenue when ridership and demands are low.

There is someone in T operations who is interested in doing so. I guess we'll see when the time comes how much pull they really have.


that's a great idea, restore the 01400 work train at Cabot and maybe even replace the ATO System which was stripped and run it on Sundays. That's what I'd like to see happen, and I'l be sure to ride them....
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Re: Remembering the 01400s

Postby CRail » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Hell, they could even take our two back and have a 6 car train
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