Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:32 pm

There was one cash collection for a ticket on the car I was in tonight as well.

And of course it’s a guy who sets a perfect example of why they need the ticket checkers. He was arguing his fare with the conductor and disputing the surcharge. The conductor was like we have had this conversation before and was persistent any collecting the full fare including surcharge.

Lots of people complaining to the conductor though about the ticket checks as he walked through the train.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby enterprise11 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:06 pm

saulblum wrote:
RenegadeMonster wrote:Was also surprised to see the ticket checkers for forcfukly blocking anyone trying to board the train before it was announced on the PA. Arms out pushing people back trying to sneak by them.


I'm no lawyer, but if a Keolis employee touches you to forcefully stop you from proceeding, is that not assault?


Give me a break. I suppose if a conductor taps a passenger on the shoulder to wake them up at their stop that's assault too?

And the ticket takers not allowing anybody on the train until it's been announced is long overdue, and probably the only good thing to come out of this asinine program. It's less of a problem on the North Side, but South Side passengers will regularly board equipment sometimes up to half an hour ahead of scheduled boarding time, and there's nothing the crews can do to stop them. They get left behind or even wind up over at Southampton Street Yard if the trainmaster does a last minute swap before the crew has gotten on that set of equipment. Guess who gets blamed when these passengers are left behind? Old Colony passengers will climb on the back of the engine, then walk through and pull the red emergency door release handles to open the power doors. Take a BIG guess as to who gets blamed if a passenger gets injured doing that?
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:46 pm

Yeah, that is crazy talk on the south side.

On the North side there is nothing like that. At least that I have seen. The trains aren't there during rush hour until 10 minutes prior to departure. On the north side we have the mob of people follow familiar conductors onto the plat form, or the train is delayed as soon as as one starts pulling into the "regular" platform. Those people drive me nuts. I admit I will sometimes board early, but I wait until all passengers have got off the train and I'm usually one of the last people standing around inside north station as most everyone else has walked out already and everyone else who boards just walk onto the platform as they arrive to north station.

Tonight train 173 was ready to board at 5:55 and the MBTA Rail app said now boarding on Track 2 at that time. All passengers had already exited the train and platform and conductors were already onboard the train. However, they didn't announce the train boarding on the PA until 6:02 giving the masses 3 minutes to board which is just crazy I think. And you bet, we didn't depart on time. We left a couple minutes late.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby CRail » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:56 am

saulblum wrote:
RenegadeMonster wrote:Was also surprised to see the ticket checkers for forcfukly blocking anyone trying to board the train before it was announced on the PA. Arms out pushing people back trying to sneak by them.


I'm no lawyer, but if a Keolis employee touches you to forcefully stop you from proceeding, is that not assault?


If an employee physically blocks a platform and you forcibly shove past them, that's assault. If the employee pushes back, that's arguably self defense. I'm no lawyer but I've seen and learned of many such cases, that claim will go nowhere.

I'm no fan of this policy at all myself, but fighting with the people who are doing the work isn't going to help anything.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby BandA » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:25 pm

RenegadeMonster wrote:Yeah, that is crazy talk on the south side.

Tonight train 173 was ready to board at 5:55 and the MBTA Rail app said now boarding on Track 2 at that time. All passengers had already exited the train and platform and conductors were already onboard the train. However, they didn't announce the train boarding on the PA until 6:02 giving the masses 3 minutes to board which is just crazy I think. And you bet, we didn't depart on time. We left a couple minutes late.
That's ridiculous; you want the passengers to board as soon as possible.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:06 am

Only saw them Tuesday at North Station. I haven't seen them the rest of the week though a co worker of mine said they checked his train last night.


Is this a random thing? How is this organized?
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:57 am

It seems they are playing this off as a "Safety" measure and don't mention fare evaders now. At lease the Keolis Staff when discussing complaints about this new tactic with passengers. We had a good decision on the train this morning about it. (We as the passengers on the train amongst our selves).
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby chrisf » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:40 am

Meanwhile, my pass is getting checked no more often than every other trip on the way into the city.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:31 pm

Wow, just wow.

Tonight there were a few people sitting out on the benches on the platforms for track 1 & 2. One elderly person with a cane and a few people reading their books minding their own business.

When the ticket checkers moved over to tacks 1 & 2 one of them went out on the platform and made them all come back inside north station. One person gave them a earful and a transfer office came to assist with telling that person that they need to come back inside.

One person that came back in screamed at them “You guys are awful”

AgIn they mentioned being on the platform before a train boards was never allowed before and they they were never supposed to be on the platform before. It’s a stately issues.


Well, why are there benches out on the platform and why are they still there.
Last edited by RenegadeMonster on Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby enterprise11 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:00 pm

RenegadeMonster wrote:Wow, just wow.

Tonight there were a few people sitting out on the benches on the platforms for track 1 & 2. One elderly person with a cane and a few people reading their books minding their own business.

When the ticket checkers moved over to tacks 1 & 2 one of them went out on the platform and made them all come back inside north station. One person gave them a earful and a transfer office came to assist with telling that person that they need to come back inside.

One person that came back in screamed at them “You guys are awedul”

AgIn they mentioned being on the platform before a train boards was never allowed before and they they were never supposed to be on the platform before. It’s a stately issues.


Well, why are there benches out on the platform and why are they still there.


Keolis is really making more and more fans with this hair-brained program. I understand preventing passengers from boarding unattended equipment, but siting outside? Really? It's also a slap in the face that these scabs are dressed like conductors minus the hats. They are NOT train service employees and have no business wearing that uniform, IMHO.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:08 am

So I voiced my friendly opinion about this whole program yesterday and mentioned there are dozens of better ways about going about it and I don't agree with how they are handling this situation.

Basically, they just apologize for the inconveniences and said this is only temporary. They will be installing manual gates like on the subway in the near future.

When I brought up that I thought it was not cool how they made all the people sitting on the benches outside come back inside the answer was that they are passed the ticket check line. They are in a area that they shouldn't be until after their tickets have been checked. They wont have access to the platform once the gates are installed until after their tickets have been checked.

The conductor on my train also hinted last night that it wont be long before we see them at the rest of the stations on the line.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:10 pm

Tonight at North Station they had the rope stanchions set up in away that roped off, completely blocked access to any of the platforms except ones which were currently boarding or when a train arrives. No way for anyone to sit on the benches if they wanted to.


Also, what I found to be very awkward is they didn't check tickers on either the 6:05 Newburyport or Reading Train. The ticker checks and transit police were all standing forming a wall on unoccupied platforms.

Also because the two 6:05 trains were the only trains at North Station (minus the Down Easter), when that announced boarding for the 6:05 reading train first a little after 6 everyone inside north station poured out on to the platform for the Newberyport train at the same time. I did it too as the sea of people were pushing past me and I was getting taken for a ride whether I wanted to board yet or not. A good 100 people in font of me by the time I got on the platform. When we were walking out on the platform, someone who had to be a Keolis supervisor or manager was on the train talking to the crew. She sounded the trains bells and honked the horn to get everyones attention walking on to the platform and shouted "Excuse me! You can't board yet!"
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby RenegadeMonster » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:31 pm

I overheard tonight a member of Keolis telling a passenger complaining about the ticket checks that they work and are doing their purpose. So far they have made a difference of on average $10,000 more worth of mTicket activations a day since put in place. I all BS on this figure. It it's a true figure, it shows that the conductors are not doing their job or need more help on the trains.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby enterprise11 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:33 am

Passengers are supposed to activate their mtickets either prior to boarding or right after they get on board. Most passengers though, at least on the South SIde, will wait until the conductor gets to them before they activate it. In fact, many passengers will take time unlocking their phone, then scrolling through to find the app, opening the app, then selecting and activating their ticket, which takes longer than cutting cash rebates. Also a lot of "oh I still need to buy it come back later."
Last edited by CRail on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unnecessary quote removed.
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Postby jamesinclair » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:30 am

The problem is that if you have a paper ticket, and it is not collected, you can reuse it. Why would you switch from a system that gives you free rides to one that doesnt? Obviously, people expect to get a free ride if no one comes by to check.

The solution is simply to use a global best practice. Require all tickets to be validated before boarding.

While the current "enforcement" does push digital activation, it does not solve the issue that an uncollected paper ticket can be used again.

The global best practice is that all paper tickets get stamped with a date and time on the platform. If the paper is not collected, it still expires after 90 (or 120) minutes because of the stamp.
Last edited by CRail on Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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