F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby trains18 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:05 pm

chrisf wrote:1066 was apparently rebuilt in 2012.


Awaiting major engine repairs at BET (1 locomotive) : 1066
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby chrisf » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:54 pm

Progress Rail did the work on 1066 back in 2012, including new paint.
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=96445&start=15#p1063290
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3709403
I guess that work wasn’t such a good value.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby Mbtagp40mc » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:26 am

I guess 1054 failed in testing the other day. I got info from one of the engineers on what happened, but I'll let them share if they want to. From what I hear, they will try to correct any issues and possibly try another test on the NEC Tuesday 2/26, but if it fails again, it'll be on it's way back to MPI.

Also, from a source, 1054 body work was so expensive, that the remaining rebuilds will be bondo jobs. Not exactly the best news to hear.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby RenegadeMonster » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:13 am

How bad are the bodies on the these units?

I know form the outside at north station it looks like their is some paint bubbling up with rust under it along the top / vents on some units. But I didn't see anything that looked rotted outs. Are we talking about body work under the rains or inside them or the roof / sides in general?
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby sonicdoommario » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:25 pm

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/ ... story.html

MBTA unveiling the rebuilt 1054. I'm going to hope that the second round of testing passed?
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby BandA » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:07 am

$3M each. Remind me, how much did they pay for the HSP46? Or a new locomotive today?

Edit: Original price for HSP-46s was $5.5M/ea for 27, ended up being $6M/ea for 40 (excellent volume discount with the options, eh?) So $6M for new in 2013, $3M to refurbish an 30 year old loco....
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby BostonUrbEx » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:06 pm

Wayne Johnson photo of the 1054 running down the Fourth Iron at FX with the High Line Bridge nicely captured in the background: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/68932 ... UcAoOrgYSc
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:52 pm

BandA wrote:$3M each. Remind me, how much did they pay for the HSP46? Or a new locomotive today?

Edit: Original price for HSP-46s was $5.5M/ea for 27, ended up being $6M/ea for 40 (excellent volume discount with the options, eh?) So $6M for new in 2013, $3M to refurbish an 30 year old loco....


Tier III vs Tier IV. The HSPs were the last new-builds before a significant ramp up of heavy off-highway diesel emissions led to far more stringent standards and some far more expensive (and possibly more temperamental) prime mover designs to meet them. If the T were to buy new, today, their only Tier IV-compliant options would be either the Siemens Charger, the EMD F125, or maybe the MP54AC, all of which would like come in at well over that $6 million per loco number. And that's before you have to deal with the more maintenance-intensive high speed prime movers that they all have, or the complicated emissions systems like particulate filters, common rail fuel systems, or urea injection and all the headaches and costs that come with them. As it is, the T can barely keep the HSP's 90s-era medium speed 4-stroke engines running, engines that have logged billions of miles in freight service, do you really want to see what they'd do to a 1500rpm 20-cylinder Cummins or Cat with 2010s era emissions and fuel system designs?

It's the same reason why Metra is spending so much money on refurbished F59s. Grandfathered emissions-exempt passenger power is only going to get more valuable from here on out, and there's a non-zero chance that the Geeps or even some of the remaining MBTA or Amtrak screamers could end up getting rebuilt for someone looking for more 645/710 motive power for their passenger ops.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby chrisf » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:39 pm

Bramdeisroberts wrote:It's the same reason why Metra is spending so much money on refurbished F59s. Grandfathered emissions-exempt passenger power is only going to get more valuable from here on out, and there's a non-zero chance that the Geeps or even some of the remaining MBTA or Amtrak screamers could end up getting rebuilt for someone looking for more 645/710 motive power for their passenger ops.

Metra is getting rebuilt SD70MACH engines that are upgraded to Tier 3 compliance. Your theory about emissions exemption being the reason that Metra bought the F59s doesn't really hold water.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby BandA » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:39 pm

Ever stood on a bridge when one of these exempt locomotives rumbles underneath? The fumes are nasty. The only things worse are small aircraft which still use leaded gasoline, and the handful of steam trains burning coal. I'm all for phasing out these polluters. Buses and trucks now face tighter emissions (not sure about construction equipment) And we are talking about trains idling & urban areas with elevated levels of asthma. Also those particulates represent unburned hydrocarbons, fuel that is being partially wasted. I guess I am okay with them rebuilding these locos as long as they don't buy more smog machines.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby Bramdeisroberts » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:34 pm

chrisf wrote:Metra is getting rebuilt SD70MACH engines that are upgraded to Tier 3 compliance. Your theory about emissions exemption being the reason that Metra bought the F59s doesn't really hold water.

There's a world of difference between a Tier III engine and a Tier IV engine, in terms of what's required to hit those emissions targets, which is why a basic medium speed prime mover like the GEVO or the 710 had no problem hitting the tier III standards with only some very minor tweaking. Metra's SD70MAC purchase more or less further proves my point.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby sonicdoommario » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:30 am

1054 appears to be back in service, accepted, and currently on the north side.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby trains18 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:33 am

It's currently leading a doubleheader on the north side to make sure that it is reliable for service to avoid having it on a set alone to only breakdown. There will be more to come in the coming months until September for the first 10 units to be back in service. They have already excercised the remaining options with MPI to overhaul an additional 26 locomotives which will be all the currently active F40PHM and PH-2C. Who knows if they will want to rebuild the screamers but I highly doubt it at this point.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby CRail » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:54 pm

I've long felt the screamers should be converted to cabbage/bike/ski cars and used to lead after severe weather instead of flipping sets. Of course I'd rather see them rebuilt but converted and repurposed is better than scrapped.
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Re: F40PH-2C/F40PHM-2C overhaul program

Postby BandA » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:58 pm

Tier IV is basically an order of magnitude lower emissions than Tier III (i.e. one-tenth of the particulates AND one-tenth of the nitrous oxides). https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/userfiles/workshops/dieselaerosols2012/nioshmvs2012tier4technologyreview.pdf Here's another about emissions https://www.aalhysterforklifts.com.au/index.php/about/blog-post/tier_4_interim_emissions_explained_greener_diesel_engines_technology

This reminds me of automobile emission controls where it took 15-20 years to make emission controlled engines competitive with pre-emission control engines.

There's discussion on some of the forums about the HSP-46 smear of soot on the headlight. I imagine this wouldn't be a problem with a Tier IV engine.
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