Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:34 pm

What about Brookville? The PCC's could be sent to them for complete overhaul if they really wanted to keep them.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:08 am

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:What about Brookville? The PCC's could be sent to them for complete overhaul if they really wanted to keep them.

As mentioned, Brookville's PCC-IIs are basically a new car in a 1947 body. SF Muni also sent its Market Street PCCs to Brookville for overhaul and rewiring work in recent years, but retained their original form without a "PCC-II" rebuild. The latter allows for continued operation with original historic character. (Market Street Railway expects the PCCs to last at least 80+ more years!)
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby dbperry » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:03 pm

Mattapan trolley line expected to get $3m infusion while study is prepared

http://www.dotnews.com/2016/mattapan-tr ... y-prepared

The MBTA board will hear a request to pump a fresh $3 million into the Mattapan high-speed trolley line next week as state officials await a consultant’s report that will detail how much it costs to operate the line and lay out options for the future.

...
In the meantime, the request for new funds to maintain the line in its current form is an acknowledgement that any changes – in the form of new or restored trolleys, repurposed Green Line cars, or a more radical departure, like electric buses – are years away from implementation.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby jonnhrr » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:15 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:What about Brookville? The PCC's could be sent to them for complete overhaul if they really wanted to keep them.

As mentioned, Brookville's PCC-IIs are basically a new car in a 1947 body. SF Muni also sent its Market Street PCCs to Brookville for overhaul and rewiring work in recent years, but retained their original form without a "PCC-II" rebuild. The latter allows for continued operation with original historic character. (Market Street Railway expects the PCCs to last at least 80+ more years!)


SEPTA's PCC-II's have not worked out well from reports I have seen various places. I don't know if that is the fault of Brookville's implementation; or whether it was a bad design, or what. So the T should proceed cautiously if it decides to go that route. It may be that the low-tech route that SF has taken might be better, unless they learn from SEPTA/Brookville's mistakes and find a better way to do a "PCC-III".

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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby rhodiecub2 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:52 am

If there is the possibility of using either type 7 or type 8 trains on the Mattapan line, would it be possible to have it run two trains instead of just one?
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby Disney Guy » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:10 am

Most of the time not enough passenger load for two car Type 7 - Type 8 trains. (This would be almost equal to 3 PCC cars.)

If 2 car trains were run then the wait time between trains would end up being much greater.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby MarcoVincenzo » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:51 am

@ Jon: I understand what you're saying about Brookville Equipment Company and their rebuild of the Septa PCC's. These were among the first PCCs that that Pennsylvania mining-equipment company was contracted to rebuild. I think it is fair to say that, since the Philadelphia job, Brookville has rightly earned itself a fine reputation rebuilding PCCs - including at least twenty for San Francisco, which are now running on Market Street and the Embarcadero. They also rebuilt Muni Car No.1, dating from 1912, doing a beautiful job. Adding to Brookville's reputation is their venture into building new streetcars for Dallas, Detroit and, I believe, Oklahoma City.

At the end of 2015, Brookville was awarded a contract to rebuild seven 1937-era ex-San Diego PCCs, even older than Boston's, which from the time El Paso abandoned its streetcar line to the Mexican border in the late 1970s, have forlornly sat outdoors in the desert near the El Paso Airport. Brookville is preserving the cars' original bodies while giving them brand-new wiring, lighting, flooring, seating, interior appointments - and a completely rebuilt set of trucks and motors. A state-of-the-art control and communications system, wheelchair lifts and air conditioning are also to be included. The contract specifies that these rebuilt cars are expected to reliably serve the public on a daily basis for at least twenty years.

Therefore, the "T" could do far worse than give Brookville the opportunity to bid on rebuilding these PCCs, instead of scrapping them and converting the line to buses. The T's rebuild of these ten cars, which was done in the late '90s at the Blue Line Shops in Orient Heights. gave the Mattapan-Ashmont PCCs a new lease on life, but the work done on them was very rudimentary compared to the PCC rebuilding work Brookville is doing now. If Brookville is given the go-ahead to do a full rebuild, these cars will end up far nicer and more reliable than they've been in decades.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby jonnhrr » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:29 pm

That's good to know regarding Brookville. I guess there is always a learning curve with this kind of work.

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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby YamaOfParadise » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:19 pm

jonnhrr wrote:That's good to know regarding Brookville. I guess there is always a learning curve with this kind of work.


Definitely; there's always things that show up in testing that show up once you let something out into the production environment. Especially in a case like this, where you're taking something pre-existing and extensively modifying it.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby Disney Guy » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:50 am

Do the Brookville rebuilds have PCC technology? Or is the propulsion system modern, comparable to what might be in a modern LRV?
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby typesix » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:49 am

The SEPTA PCCs have a AC propulsion system/motors, like new LRVs. The only PCC tech are the body/frame and modern versions of B-3 trucks.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby ExCon90 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:06 pm

One of the engineers who worked on the project called them LRVs in sheep's clothing.
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:54 pm

typesix wrote:The SEPTA PCCs have a AC propulsion system/motors, like new LRVs. The only PCC tech are the body/frame and modern versions of B-3 trucks.

ExCon90 wrote:One of the engineers who worked on the project called them LRVs in sheep's clothing.

The PCC-IIs have an similar dashboard to 1981 Kawasaki cars, but are (not?) compatible . (The latter were delivered with Westinghouse chopper control and DC motors).
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Re: Ashmont-Mattapan Trolley Line Discussion

Postby dbperry » Mon May 16, 2016 2:11 pm

Doesn't add much to the discussion, and nothing we don't already know, but some good video anyway:

https://news.wgbh.org/2016/05/11/local- ... olley-line
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