1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby tvachon » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:20 am

Found this map over on Wired. Its pretty interesting. They planned expansion using the existing CR from what I can see, but the nearby landmarks make this likes map I haven't seen before.

Image

(Click for a the original huge size)
tvachon
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:34 am
Location: Shirley, MA

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:17 pm

tvachon wrote:Found this map over on Wired. Its pretty interesting. They planned expansion using the existing CR from what I can see, but the nearby landmarks make this likes map I haven't seen before.

Image

(Click for a the original huge size)


All of the old MTA-era maps were done in that style: https://sites.google.com/site/mpscan2/MTAMapColor.jpg. This one just drew the proposed extensions over the official 1945 system spider map.
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby joshg1 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:54 am

This wasn't a plan like the Green Line Extension is a plan, or even Silver to Chelsea, which I don't *believe* has reached the point when contracts can be put up for bid. It was a study to reform the financial problems the Elevated had, and one of the suggestions was to extend lines, as shown. I read that report and the '47 follow up (summary: More), and wrote about them here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=100641

It's hard to find this map at a readable resolution, so I enlarged someone else's image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/newmundane/9519612529/sizes/o
The map on paper is several feet by several feet.
joshg1
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:05 pm

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby boblothrope » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:10 pm

joshg1 wrote:This wasn't a plan like the Green Line Extension is a plan, or even Silver to Chelsea, which I don't *believe* has reached the point when contracts can be put up for bid. It was a study to reform the financial problems the Elevated had, and one of the suggestions was to extend lines, as shown. I read that report and the '47 follow up (summary: More), and wrote about them here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=100641

It's hard to find this map at a readable resolution, so I enlarged someone else's image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/newmundane/9519612529/sizes/o
The map on paper is several feet by several feet.


As I asked on another forum, why didn't they propose a line to Watertown and Waltham? There's a lot of people out there who aren't near any rapid transit, and an underutilized (I suspect even in 1945) rail line branching off the proposed Red Line extension.
boblothrope
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:43 am

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby joshg1 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:35 pm

The route outbound from Harvard was changed in the 1947 report, http://www.flickr.com/photos/newmundane/7836160174/sizes/o, into two lines, one following the Fitchburg and Central Mass from W. Cambridge (Alewife) through the north of Waltham. This was the result of public consultations and the fact that Memorial Drive was being extended (used to end 0.3 mi from the Larz Anderson Bridge) along the proposed "Red Line" extension. Greenough Blvd is a post war road, too.

I will speculate that the Watertown Branch was too busy with freight to mix with transit. Trains of PCC cars on a gantlet track was the proposed method for many of these extensions. Add the proposal for light rail along the B&A Main, and Watertown and Waltham are sandwiched between two routes. And they might have thought Waltham too well served by B&M commuter trains, but that isn't in either report.
joshg1
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:05 pm

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:17 am

joshg1 wrote:The route outbound from Harvard was changed in the 1947 report, http://www.flickr.com/photos/newmundane/7836160174/sizes/o, into two lines, one following the Fitchburg and Central Mass from W. Cambridge (Alewife) through the north of Waltham. This was the result of public consultations and the fact that Memorial Drive was being extended (used to end 0.3 mi from the Larz Anderson Bridge) along the proposed "Red Line" extension. Greenough Blvd is a post war road, too.

I will speculate that the Watertown Branch was too busy with freight to mix with transit. Trains of PCC cars on a gantlet track was the proposed method for many of these extensions. Add the proposal for light rail along the B&A Main, and Watertown and Waltham are sandwiched between two routes. And they might have thought Waltham too well served by B&M commuter trains, but that isn't in either report.


The H2O branch was still intact to the Waltham end, so the severed portion from Mt. Auburn to Alewife was not a big deal for retaining the Watertown customers. It's nothing but the reservoir/Waterworks on that stretch anyway, with the only then-customers on the stretch from the Fresh Pond grade crossing to the junction with the Fitchburg. As that doesn't really go on a trajectory towards Alewife they presumably would've kept it as a short stub.

It's clear to see that extending that high speed line to run to Watertown Sq. was a natural future extension if freight dried up. But given that the Arsenal was still a major munitions plant in the mid-40's and would continue so through the Korean War and early Cold War there were national security implications for cutting it that the BTC obviously wasn't going to touch.
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby wicked » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:10 pm

Couldn't they have tunneled underneath/alongside it?
wicked
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:17 pm
Location: MBTA Red Line, formerly WMATA Blue/Yellow

Re: 1945 MBTA Proposed Expansion Map

Postby joshg1 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:47 pm

Couldn't they have tunneled underneath/alongside it?


Short answer- yes, but at the expense of other projects. It's an expensive proposition and wasn't in the reports. Almost all proposals are surface with a few viaducts, mostly light rail b/c it was cheaper and, with a few exceptions, they didn't think passenger numbers warranted heavy rail. Consider that the Red Line to Braintree is on the surface- one of the few proposals built. The only tunnel of any serious length mentioned is replacing the Forest Hills elevated with a subway under Washington St, and that's only in the later report as "maybe in the future".
joshg1
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:05 pm


Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: RenegadeMonster and 7 guests