Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby Teamdriver » Sat May 18, 2013 5:27 am

User avatar
Teamdriver
 
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby Disney Guy » Sat May 18, 2013 6:41 am

I still remember the deafening roar as the pre-1960's Red Line trains hurtled through the Cambridge subway with all the windows open.

Can't watch videos, take too long to download onto my computer.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.
User avatar
Disney Guy
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Nashua, NH

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sat May 18, 2013 7:24 am

How about the brakes on the new Rotem cars? Holy moley!
User avatar
BostonUrbEx
 
Posts: 3587
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:55 pm
Location: Winn to MPT 8, Boston to MPN 38, and Hat to Bank

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby Type7trolley » Sat May 18, 2013 1:05 pm

Why do they keep referring to it as brake noise? Do they just assume the operators are dragging their brakes through every curve? I mean the T flat out told them the cause of the noise and they still got it wrong.

I also like how they're engineers now... it's a step up from conductors I guess.
User avatar
Type7trolley
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 6:31 pm

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:57 am

Pesaturo is full of *. It's not "dangerous" to grease the rails.
User avatar
CircusFreakGRITZ
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:44 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:55 pm

depends what part of rail is greased.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer
User avatar
DutchRailnut
 
Posts: 21176
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:54 pm

CircusFreakGRITZ wrote:Pesaturo is full of *.


This is true as the sky is blue.

It's not "dangerous" to grease the rails.


That's a technical question with many possible answers. None of which I would trust coming out of Pesaturo's mouth (but we knew that...).
F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Posts: 7111
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: North Cambridge

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby sery2831 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:21 am

Grease not only reduces noise but it extends the life of the rail and wheels. It's something that should be used on all tight curves in the subway!
Moderator: MBTA Rail Operations
User avatar
sery2831
 
Posts: 5127
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Manchester, NH

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:00 am

Hmm...for my money, I would say that grease would definitely have an effect on braking distance. Why wouldn't it ? The very action of braking is caused by friction as a force. You remove some of the friction, you change the quotient for the braking equation. If anything, perhaps go to what was used at North Station on the Main Line El - water sprinklers. Water will also lengthen braking distance, but unlike grease it quickly dissipates by evaporation and absorbtion. Better yet, leave it the hell alone. It probably doesn't bother anyone and it sounds cool.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby AEM7AC920 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:17 am

It wouldn't impact braking distance much, you are greasing the flange of the wheel only not the tread which still sits completely ontop of the rail.
AMTRAK HAWK DETECTOR TRACK 1 NOOO DEFECTS OUT!
AEM7AC920
 
Posts: 2582
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Unkown.....

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:32 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:It wouldn't impact braking distance much, you are greasing the flange of the wheel only not the tread which still sits completely ontop of the rail.


You realize that a flange on a streetcar is roughly 3/8 of an inch in height, right ? Is your grease laser guided because any grease that I have ever seen spreads, especially if immense pressure is put upon it, to adjoining surfaces such as a rail head.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby octr202 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:01 am

On tight curves and loops, a big part is greasing the restraining rail, so there the grease is ending up on the inside of the wheel flange. Track grease is pretty thick stuff, so it also doesn't travel too far.

The stuff we're using up at Seashore is actually soy-based, much more environmentally friendly but it does wash out in the rain (it's water-soluble).
Wondering if I'll see the Haverhill double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
User avatar
octr202
 
Posts: 4142
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:13 am
Location: In the land of the once and future 73 trackless trolley.

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby AEM7AC920 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:08 am

3rdrail wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:It wouldn't impact braking distance much, you are greasing the flange of the wheel only not the tread which still sits completely ontop of the rail.


You realize that a flange on a streetcar is roughly 3/8 of an inch in height, right ? Is your grease laser guided because any grease that I have ever seen spreads, especially if immense pressure is put upon it, to adjoining surfaces such as a rail head.


Which still doesn't significantally impact braking distance enough to cause problems or trains to miss stops.
AMTRAK HAWK DETECTOR TRACK 1 NOOO DEFECTS OUT!
AEM7AC920
 
Posts: 2582
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Unkown.....

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby Disney Guy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:53 pm

Greasing the restraining rail lengthens the life of the inside of the wheel flange and said restraining rail since most of the force needed to make the train go around the curve is exerted there.

But so long as the 3/8" or so of tread to rail head contact is maintained by both wheels on a given axle, slippage of at least one of the wheels on its respective rail, and therefore noise, will occur when that wheelset takes a curve.
(To the theater stage manager) Quit twiddling the knob and flickering the lights while the audience is entering and being seated. (To the subway motorman) Quit twiddling the knob and dinging the doors while passengers are getting off and others are waiting to board.
User avatar
Disney Guy
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Nashua, NH

Re: Hank Investigates: Noisy MBTA trains

Postby 3rdrail » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:01 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:
3rdrail wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:It wouldn't impact braking distance much, you are greasing the flange of the wheel only not the tread which still sits completely ontop of the rail.


You realize that a flange on a streetcar is roughly 3/8 of an inch in height, right ? Is your grease laser guided because any grease that I have ever seen spreads, especially if immense pressure is put upon it, to adjoining surfaces such as a rail head.


Which still doesn't significantally impact braking distance enough to cause problems or trains to miss stops.


And, you know this, how ?
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Next

Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Arlington, NealG, NeedhamLine and 10 guests