How often and where are green line trains short turned?

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How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby jscola30 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:44 am

I boarded a train for Reservoir the other day and it got me thinking, how often and where are green line trains shorturned. I've seen some (and been on) ones for Park St. (inbound B and D trains), Reservoir, Kenmore, Brigham Circle, but , does short turning occur on the B and C lines, and if so where? Do North Station or Lechmere bound trains ever get short turned?
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:37 am

The B Line will turn at Blandford St (first stop out of the tunnel) on occassion. Usually due to track work, a disabled train problem, or a car accident up ahead, but never for a schedule adjustment. I don't know about the C, but the C is short turned much less often than any other line, I would bet.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby novitiate » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:13 am

I've been on a B that short-turned at Washington St. once, but I think that's a very rare occasion. Also, when there was that accident on Comm Ave a few weeks ago, inbound service briefly turned at Packard's Corner. (I tried to get a picture of the train with its destination sign, but it went through too quickly) I've never been on a C short-turn, though.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby SM89 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:56 am

I hate that they never change the signs for short turns that are planned. "People who are looking for an E train to Heath will not understand it if it says E Brigham Circle". BS. They'll be more annoyed that they're unexpectedly forced to get off and wait for another train at Brigham.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby CRail » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:30 pm

SM89, if a single car (or train) is short turned, it will usually display where it is going. If all service is being short turned, they use the line's normal terminus. This is so someone doesn't sit at, say, Boylston and wait for hours for a car reading "Heath St." to show up. I agree that it's nonsense, but that's why they do it. Any time I've seen a diversion on the red line the 01800's have gotten signed up properly, and the blue line cars all say Gov't Ctr. when Bowdoin is closed. So at least some things are done right!

Normal service short turns

B & D: Government Center
C: North Station

Common Short turns

Park St: for Schedule Adjustments and equipment failures (including use of the pit)
Brattle Loop: (Government Center) for Garden event releases and other supplemental service. There was an Run As Directed that used ran from Lechmere to Brattle once every hour or so but I believe it's been taken off the schedule.
Kenmore: C & D trains turned for Fenway event releases and other supplemental service.
Blandford Turnback: Used for Central Subway supplemental service including Fenway event releases.
Brigham Circle:Trans are crossed over and turned in the station whenever there's an obstruction on the street running portion of the E.
Reservoir: For logistical reasons, some Riverside line trains end at Reservoir to be laid up in the yard there. Also Run As Directed cars may be sent there, as that's where they often begin from.

I don't know of any common use of the Northeastern turnback, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. There are other crossovers throughout the system which can be used in diversions or service disruptions, including use of the Chestnut Hill street running, used daily for non-revenue equipment movements between Lake St. and the Res.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby Steve Wagner » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:14 pm

Quite a few years ago I thought some streetcars would be held at Northeastern ready to head back into the tunnel to carry people inbound from Kenmore after Red Sox games. I seem to remember some of the double-ended cars from Dallas being used for this.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby CRail » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:05 am

From Northeastern, the Central Subway is joined at Copley. Heath Street cars do not go to Kenmore.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby SM89 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:19 am

I usually see a trainset laying over at Northeastern about twice a week (but it depends when I'm on campus).
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby Teamdriver » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:24 am

I remember those Dallas cars, but i have a question, maybe someone can recall, i cant seem to remember. From Park street, there were trolleys that were designated Heath street, and turned there, not going to Arborway. Now, did the MTA send trolleys from Arborway that only went as far as Heath street, and returned to Arborway?
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby highgreen215 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:26 pm

No. The track pattern would not conveniently allow it. And what would be the sense of it?
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby MBTA3247 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:47 pm

CRail wrote:Normal service short turns

B & D: Government Center
C: North Station

I would not call those short turns, as those are where those routes always terminate. They would only be short turns if there were B, C, or D trains that were scheduled to go all the way to Lechmere. That's like saying Dudley Square is a short turn point because you can get off the SL4 and hop on a 42 to keep going down Washington St.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby CRail » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:59 am

highgreen215 wrote:No. The track pattern would not conveniently allow it. And what would be the sense of it?

I'm not sure until when, but there was a complete loop at Heath St. at one point which would have allowed that routing. That's not to say it actually was used for normal service, just that it was possible.

Derek, hairsplit much? B&D trains short turning is not like the silver line and 42 because they're two completely separate routes. It's more like saying the 77A is a short turn of the 77, or 57A is of the 57, which they are (even though they never go all the way). The lines all follow the same route in the central subway, but three of them turn short of Lechmere, which is the actual end of the line. I wouldn't call Government Center the true end of the line just because that's where cars are being turned this decade, and I hate the maps everywhere that show what lines end at what stations because it could all be changed around tomorrow. When ALL cars on those two lines turn at Park St. for three years, then will you call them short turns?
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby SM89 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:02 pm

There was a single and a double laying over at NU today around 5pm. Not sure when they got there or where the operators go while they're there.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby sery2831 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:15 pm

A few years ago I spent a lot of time in Alston. And I witnessed B Line cars being crossed back at Washington St quite regularly. Many of these short turns are not planned, but come out of necessity when an event such as a break down occurs along the line.
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Re: How often and where are green line trains short turned?

Postby Teamdriver » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:23 am

highgreen215 wrote:No. The track pattern would not conveniently allow it. And what would be the sense of it?

Well I was thinking of the VA hospital, it was a busy place.
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