Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby dieciduej » Thu May 02, 2013 5:10 pm

End doors are as far as I know not part of the door circuit, since they are not regular passenger use doors. Most likely someone on a walk-through in the yard didn't slam the door behind them. On occasion I have gotten on to an Orange Line train, that pulled out of Wellington Yard, to find an end door open or a cab door open and I have just shut it. Usually the end door, not a cab end, when I have closed it is locked and can't be reopened except from the outside.

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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Thu May 02, 2013 5:19 pm

One time two summers ago, I disembarked a blue line train at Revere Beach, noticed an open end-door, and used the "Info" call box on the platform to alert the dispatcher, who thanked me and said he would call ahead to Wonderland and let someone know. I've typically found the people at the other end of the call boxes to be pretty polite and helpful. But anyway, it seems like open end-doors do happen from time to time.
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby 3rdrail » Thu May 02, 2013 6:06 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:Seriously, what is the point of reporting things if they're going to give you a line of bull in response?

You forgot to text them that you were the famous "Urbie" from RRN ! They would have taken you seriously then !
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby CRail » Thu May 02, 2013 8:25 pm

End doors have nothing to do with the passenger door circuit, police officers don't know that (I think if you're a transit officer, you should have some knowledge about the operation and its equipment, but most do not). Sometimes if they're not shut tightly when they were last used, a curve or sudden shift will cause them to slide one way or another. The simplest thing to do is to close it, but if you're not comfortable doing that, depicted in Urbex's photograph immediately to the left of the open door is an intercom to the operator. It could have been handled immediately and without involving the Transit Police. I don't understand why people go to great lengths to bring attention to something while skipping the extremely simple device which exists specifically for that purpose (not to pick on you, Urbie, you just happened to be the unlucky trigger of that rant :wink:).
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby Patrick Boylan » Thu May 02, 2013 9:06 pm

I don't know what Boston's history in this regard is, but in the age of dinosaurs here in Philadelphia, and if I remember correctly New York, they had signs "do not pass between cars WHILE TRAIN IS IN MOTION" and it was perfectly ok for passengers to open the end doors to get from one car to another. Some passengers would close the door behind them, but the doors I remember were sliders, which eventually would slide closed and latch themselves.
And hardly anybody got injured or died, especially not if they obeyed the sign and passed between cars when the train wasn't moving.
Are these Boston end doors some newfangled improvement that can't close themselves?
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby BostonUrbEx » Thu May 02, 2013 9:10 pm

3rdrail wrote:
BostonUrbEx wrote:Seriously, what is the point of reporting things if they're going to give you a line of bull in response?

You forgot to text them that you were the famous "Urbie" from RRN ! They would have taken you seriously then !


Bahahaha, yeah, I'm sure that would have greased the wheels so much. :P



Also, just to clear things up. The door was apparently stuck, and the same person who tried that also said the operator knew (or needed to know? it wasn't clear what they were muttering about). But nothing was done so I saw it fit to send a report. But they must have figured it wasn't worth doing until they got to Park St so an inspector could do it instead of the operator. A couple of pretty good tugs by an inspector solved it all easily enough.
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby 3rdrail » Thu May 02, 2013 11:01 pm

CRail wrote: police officers don't know that (I think if you're a transit officer, you should have some knowledge about the operation and its equipment, but most do not)

Perhaps only as far as rudimentary knowledge regarding controls that either indicate or control power, but I would think that anything else would get the Carmen's Union in a dither.
CRail wrote:I don't understand why people go to great lengths to bring attention to something while skipping the extremely simple device which exists specifically for that purpose

The real answer to this one Corey (which doesn't apply to Urbie nor many here on RRN) is that many want to be flaming a-holes by getting noticed and getting their fifteen minutes of fame by downloading onto Youtube, making a commotion for about the same reasons involving friends also on board, or delighting in the fact that they have stumbled into something that will either "get someone in trouble", show the T up as a rolling junkyard, or "all of the above". Many others were just pissed as it represented the threat of delay as we saw. I'll be willing to bet that out of the observers of that malfunction, that the individuals who would have actually have done something like calmly speaking into an intercom out of a concern for passenger safety (like Urbie) were far less than the other types that I have mentioned.
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby Finch » Fri May 03, 2013 6:02 pm

Patrick Boylan wrote:I don't know what Boston's history in this regard is, but in the age of dinosaurs here in Philadelphia, and if I remember correctly New York, they had signs "do not pass between cars WHILE TRAIN IS IN MOTION" and it was perfectly ok for passengers to open the end doors to get from one car to another. Some passengers would close the door behind them, but the doors I remember were sliders, which eventually would slide closed and latch themselves.
And hardly anybody got injured or died, especially not if they obeyed the sign and passed between cars when the train wasn't moving.
Are these Boston end doors some newfangled improvement that can't close themselves?

In a word, yes.

End doors in Boston aren't meant for passengers to pass through...in fact they automatically lock from the inside when they close. Not sure about the sliding No. 3 car doors, but on the older cars the end doors actually swing on hinges. They will bang all over the place if left unlatched. Definitely not self closing.
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby Patrick Boylan » Sat May 04, 2013 9:40 am

By the way, in neither of these 2 cases, the video at the thread's top, or the end door photo, do I see a situation where somebody's likely ACCIDENTALLY to fall out the open door.
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby Robert Paniagua » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:30 pm

Ive discovered those type of doors, which are called "storm doors" open, too. But I just simply close it and make sure it's locked so that no passengers try to pull a "New York City Subway" stunt and change to another car while the train is in motion especially
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby boblothrope » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:09 pm

Robert Paniagua wrote:Ive discovered those type of doors, which are called "storm doors" open, too. But I just simply close it and make sure it's locked so that no passengers try to pull a "New York City Subway" stunt and change to another car while the train is in motion especially


The NYC subway used to allow people to change cars, except on 75-foot cars which swung far apart on curves, and also have locked doors which could be remotely unlocked in an emergency. A few years ago, they banned the practice. If a cop spots you doing it, you will get a ticket, even if the train is stopped.

The NYC commuter railroads have signs saying you can't pass through the end doors while the train is moving, but it's never enforced. In fact, they announce that you should change cars if you're going to a station with a short platform.
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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby Gerry6309 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Finch wrote:
Patrick Boylan wrote:I don't know what Boston's history in this regard is, but in the age of dinosaurs here in Philadelphia, and if I remember correctly New York, they had signs "do not pass between cars WHILE TRAIN IS IN MOTION" and it was perfectly ok for passengers to open the end doors to get from one car to another. Some passengers would close the door behind them, but the doors I remember were sliders, which eventually would slide closed and latch themselves.
And hardly anybody got injured or died, especially not if they obeyed the sign and passed between cars when the train wasn't moving.
Are these Boston end doors some newfangled improvement that can't close themselves?

In a word, yes.

End doors in Boston aren't meant for passengers to pass through...in fact they automatically lock from the inside when they close. Not sure about the sliding No. 3 car doors, but on the older cars the end doors actually swing on hinges. They will bang all over the place if left unlatched. Definitely not self closing.


For the record, the end doors on most Boston cars will automatically latch open if they are left ajar. The infamous key, a very plain skeleton key, can unlock the sliding doors if turned a full revolution. I don't know if this applies to all present equipment, but it was true in the 1970s. In the 1923-24 East Boston cars, the swinging doors had a flip-down door stop, just like those in many businesses. 01490-91 also had swinging doors - the fiberglass ends had no door pockets. On the sliding dors the hold open latch was a weighted lever at the top of the door. The pre 1955 cars on the red and orange lines also had a heavy screen, which could replace the door and provide ventilation. It was full height, so even little tykes could see out.

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Re: Red Line Door Open While in Operation

Postby sery2831 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:42 am

The locks on the doors can be unlocked with one full turn still. The doors from the outside to go in cannot be locked ever. They are one way locks. This is true on the Commuter Rail fleet but in reverse. You can lock the door to enter the car, but cannot be locked inside a car.
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