Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby 3rdrail » Sat May 25, 2013 3:19 pm

joshg1 wrote: I look it up online.

Well, that's great but you are wasting the time of persons on this thread of which this experience was not a dubious vicarious e-article.
joshg1 wrote:Some posters want a thing- I think it's a bad idea

If in this vague passage you are suggesting that I want the Arborway Streetcar to ride on;
1) I don't ride on anything for pleasure after a PCC, and
2) You don't actually think that I'm getting out of my Mercedes E-350 ? (but I already have my Myles Davis pre-tuned in my car stereo !)
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby Mcoov » Sat May 25, 2013 5:14 pm

Perhaps what the MBTA should do is make the 39 a freqeuent TT, with free transfers to the E at Brigham Circle, Heath St. and Hyde Sq. (assuming the E is extended).
After all, everyone hates a good compromise.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby Red Wing » Sun May 26, 2013 9:39 am

Mcoov wrote:Perhaps what the MBTA should do is make the 39 a freqeuent TT, with free transfers to the E at Brigham Circle, Heath St. and Hyde Sq. (assuming the E is extended).
After all, everyone hates a good compromise.


I don't see this as much of a compromise. A TT will hold as many people as the current 39 does also the 39 has one of the shortest headways of any rubber tire route with the second highest passenger count (according to the 11th edition of the bluebook). If your going to spend the money for the electrical system you might as well go all the way and give me a trolley that can hold more people and give me the mythical one seat ride to downtown.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby rethcir » Sun May 26, 2013 1:44 pm

atlantis wrote:I mentioned this on another thread a while back, but I wonder if there could be a special "dual-mode" vehicle that could run as a streetcar and also as a bus on Huntington Ave. Similar to a "hi-railer" this vehicle could run on rail tracks and roads. I remember seeing a you-tube video of an experimental "rail bus" that was tried on a branch line in Japan. Perhaps one could be designed that ran on electric power in the subway and on battery/bio diesel on the street, also switching between road and rail modes. Such a vehicle could be used to effectively re-extend the E branch to Arborway and even "re-extend" the Green Line to Watertown. Not as a "forever solution" but maybe one that could work for the near-term. Granted, many logistics would need to be worked out.


You could spend millions acquiring such vehicles, or you could, you know, make people get off the trolley and get onto a bus.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby CRail » Sun May 26, 2013 1:59 pm

...Or offer a one seat ride like you used to.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sun May 26, 2013 6:16 pm

Red Wing wrote:
Mcoov wrote:Perhaps what the MBTA should do is make the 39 a freqeuent TT, with free transfers to the E at Brigham Circle, Heath St. and Hyde Sq. (assuming the E is extended).
After all, everyone hates a good compromise.


I don't see this as much of a compromise. A TT will hold as many people as the current 39 does also the 39 has one of the shortest headways of any rubber tire route with the second highest passenger count (according to the 11th edition of the bluebook). If your going to spend the money for the electrical system you might as well go all the way and give me a trolley that can hold more people and give me the mythical one seat ride to downtown.


The power source is already there. There's a high voltage MBTA cable running the length of the route.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby 3rdrail » Sun May 26, 2013 6:24 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:
The power source is already there. There's a high voltage MBTA cable running the length of the route.

Shhhh!!!- How do you think my electric bill is $0.00 every month ! :-(
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby wicked » Sun May 26, 2013 8:47 pm

THAT explains how you afford the rockin' wheels.

(I kid, 3rdrail, I kid.)
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby Red Wing » Mon May 27, 2013 8:49 am

I forgot about the electrical infrastructure. Question about the electrics though. The line was used predominantly by PCC's. Would the electrics be able to handle two car LRV's?
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon May 27, 2013 11:57 am

The overhead source is all the same whether you're running pantograph or pole. Green Line, Blue Line overhead, Mattapan, Cambridge trackless trolleys, and Silver Line overhead all run on exactly the same voltage. Only difference is whether the wires are panto or pole compatible.

Now, since there have been 2 power-hungrier generations of LRV's introduced since 1985 you would have to beef up the underground draw from Forest Hills or (wherever the nearest inbound source is) with a substation upgrade. It's got to be able to handle at minimum a 3-car set of Bredas to stay in-spec for potential service patterns and/or equipment moves. But that's not hard to do on an existing trunk line. If anything is obsolete underground, give it some basic state-of-repair TLC. But the only construction required is miles away at the substation. On the corridor itself it's plug-and-play hooking new overhead into the pre-existing conduits.

The T does have an unfunded programmed replacement in the works for the ex-A line power draw, which is still active the whole length of that former route from the B line to Watertown carhouse to bolster the TT power on the 71. And they likewise have an unfunded plan to put a substation at Codman Yard to finally separate the High Speed Line from the Ashmont Branch and give both Red + M more reliable/less-spiky power out that end. That'll give the existing High Speed Line trunk the juice to handle LRV's if they ever switch the overhead, but also future-proofs the Ashmont Branch for the power requirements of next-gen Red Line cars. These types of infrastructure upgrades aren't cheap, but they also aren't rare. The interconnections across the system get bolstered all the time to keep pace with new car orders.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby jwhite07 » Tue May 28, 2013 9:55 am

And they likewise have an unfunded plan to put a substation at Codman Yard to finally separate the High Speed Line from the Ashmont Branch and give both Red + M more reliable/less-spiky power out that end.


I may be wrong, but I thought a substation was put in at Mattapan around the same time they did the overall rehab of the line and put an actual (well, kind of) carhouse in at Mattapan. Many years ago, one could actually notice a PCC's interior lights were a bit dimmer at the Mattapan end than at Ashmont, because as you say, the line was powered off the Red Line feed, and the nearest substation was a ways up the line... Shawmut? Fields Corner? Now with the PCCs equipped with air conditioners, they'd be pulling even more amps. Granted, I haven't lived in the city for almost a decade and thus haven't had time for a side trip down to that area in quite a while. Perhaps I'm thinking substation as in the Transit Police booth now there.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Wed May 29, 2013 8:10 pm

wicked wrote:THAT explains how you afford the rockin' wheels.


If your lucky you might get a ride in it like me! :)
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby BostonUrbEx » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:37 pm

I've been working for a contractor at the VA Hospital in JP, right at Heath St Station. I've often wondered how competitive the Orange Line would be up against the E Line, though. I've finally been putting it to the test and it seems that going to the VA Hospital via the Orange Line and Jackson Square Station is actually faster than taking the E Line. Yes, there's the walking factor where most people don't want to walk that far, or are perhaps disabled, and in certain weather a seat may be more valuable than saving time by making a long walk. But that said, I see no benefit to extending the E Line at this time.

I would still love to see it come back, at least to a certain extent. But, I've determined an extension is nearly useless without signal priority. Signal priority would do wonders for the E Line, but the MBTA administration refuses to accept the fact that it's beneficial. Should they go through with it, an E Line extension would then -- and only then -- be a lot more feasible. In my opinion.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby wicked » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:45 pm

What is the T's deal with poo-poohing signal priority? I remember the Washington Street trolley buses were supposed to get it. Did that ever happen?
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby highgreen215 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:19 am

I'm not sure if it is signal priority, but on Beacon Street there is now Green Line signal coordination which works pretty well.
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