Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

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Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby highgreen215 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:18 pm

There will be a panel discussion on the proposed extension of trolley service about .7 miles from Heath St. to JP's Hyde Sq. at the Connolly Branch Library on Thursday 4/4 at 7:00 PM. Fred Salvucci, ex-transportation boss, will be on the panel. This would resurrect part of the Arborway route abandoned in 1985. It should be interesting.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby newpylong » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:14 pm

Interesting given we're looking at another fare hike.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby mattl » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:49 pm

Any idea of the proposed route?
Oh, I bet you read a lot of Gordon Wood, huh? You read your Gordon Wood and you regurgitate it from a textbook, and you think you're awesome doing that and how 'bout them apples and all that Gordon Wood business?
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby The EGE » Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:59 pm

mattl wrote:Any idea of the proposed route?


Straight down South Huntington to the triangle with Perkins and Centre. About half a mile all-told.

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It's the part of the Arborway Line furthest from the Orange Line, and South Huntington is wider than Centre. This one's got a shot.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby highgreen215 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:56 pm

There's a lot of big new development coming on South Huntington Ave. The area is slated to change dramatically from institutions like The Home for Little Wanderers and the Goddard House nursing home to residential apartment buildings and at least one major hotel. The #39 bus, which replaced much of the Arborway trolley line, is understandably seen as inadequate for the proposed redevelopment of the area.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby MBTA3247 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:12 pm

And with Menino set to retire after his current term ends, there's one less obstacle to getting an extension built.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:27 am

That's literally a pretty straight move in one of the wider sections of JP streets. I wonder if they intend to crossover at South Huntington/Centre or if they are going to loop using Centre and Perkins into a western version of the old Hyde Square Loop ? (which looped from Centre to Centre) As JP property continues to climb in value, development on this corridor is natural with upgraded transportation that corresponds. Now...as long as the track is being laid, if a vocal group gets together and pushes for a return to Forest Hills...
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby TomNelligan » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:33 am

As much as I would like to see that section of the Arborway line restored, I won't be holding my breath. Aside from the T''s major financial issues, I'm sure that NIMBYs of all sorts will show up to complain about big terrible streetcars inhibiting their right to double-park on South Huntington Avenue.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:25 am

I'm not so sure about that. Most of the fear mongers alerting the general public of the terror of the trolleys seem to be pretty centralized on Centre and South Sts. And even there, there really is only one screamer who seems to be petrified that a loss of parking is going to destroy his South St. business. South Huntington is about 12.5 feet wider than Centre, making it less arguable as being too tight. South Huntington could absorb that 12.5 feet with an in/outbound ROW and still have just short of the unaffected clearance of Centre. A Blitzkreig of meter maids starting at the announcement of the project down there should keep the double parkers silent, but even that is more of a problem down at Centre and South Sts.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby BostonUrbEx » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:59 am

I'm just confused as to how you loop (or where you could possibly layover in order to change ends, should they, for whatever reason, go that route) down there. It just seems like all the ways to loop don't make sense or are too tight. And even if you can loop, where do you layover for schedule adjustments, will there be space to pull out of service, etc.

I don't see why they don't go all the way to Arborway for the sake of utilizing all that space at the Arborway Yard alone! Even if service between Heath and Arborway is peak-only, that Arborway Yard seems like a huge waste of potential Green Line storage and maintenance.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby wicked » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:06 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:I don't see why they don't go all the way to Arborway for the sake of utilizing all that space at the Arborway Yard alone! Even if service between Heath and Arborway is peak-only, that Arborway Yard seems like a huge waste of potential Green Line storage and maintenance.


Once they tear down the overpass, I have a feeling much of the Arborway yard area is getting developed. I say that without any inside knowledge, but Forest Hills is the next area in the city poised to take off and I'm sure the T would love to make money on the real estate.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:25 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:I'm just confused as to how you loop (or where you could possibly layover in order to change ends, should they, for whatever reason, go that route) down there. It just seems like all the ways to loop don't make sense or are too tight. And even if you can loop, where do you layover for schedule adjustments, will there be space to pull out of service, etc.

I don't see why they don't go all the way to Arborway for the sake of utilizing all that space at the Arborway Yard alone! Even if service between Heath and Arborway is peak-only, that Arborway Yard seems like a huge waste of potential Green Line storage and maintenance.


Hahaha!!! I'm with you on the ride to the Arborway, Urbie ! Your argument is a great one but probably one that would be best put forth once commitments were made to start the original extension. :-)
As far as a loop is concerned at the Hyde Square vicinity, how about (outbound to inbound) South Huntington>Barbara>Centre>Day>Bynner (with a snip off the relatively unused NE corner of the Angell parking lot to make an easier curve)>South Huntington ? The old loop was at Centre/Day but only looped Centre St. traffic back towards Jackson Square.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby mattl » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:23 pm

As someone who lives in this section, I gotta say this is all quite exciting.
Oh, I bet you read a lot of Gordon Wood, huh? You read your Gordon Wood and you regurgitate it from a textbook, and you think you're awesome doing that and how 'bout them apples and all that Gordon Wood business?
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby MarkB » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:31 pm

Just to note: this is from the same group that sued to get the Arborway line restored and lost, appealed, and lost again. Unless and until pigs sprout wings and start flying, the MBTA is not going to run a streetcar line down a street with no dedicated rail lanes. They tore up the rails and repaved the streets for a reason.

When I saw this, I thought of the guy whose girlfriend breaks up with him, and he keeps hanging around her, saying 'can we still be friends?' No means no. There is no law against asking again and again and again, but no means no. The T said no, the judge said no, and the appeals court said no. Even before the current fiscal cluster-eff, the T said no. Today? My considered opinion is, they will say no again. But that's just me.
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Re: Proposed E-line extension Heath St. to Hyde Sq.

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:21 pm

I am watchful and am not ruling this out for a number of reasons, those being 1 )the political scene is changing 2) South Huntington Ave. is changing, and 3) South Huntington Ave with no loop or crossover, could run with a private ROW and still be as wide for other traffic as Centre St. is now. Also, South Huntington Ave. commercial properties tend to have their own parking lots as opposed to South and Centre's mainly street parking only. This really is not the Arborway fiasco re-visited. Plan for the worst but don't rule it out because it does stand on it's own merits. (By the way, they tore up the rails as they were legally required to do so and were actually overdue.) HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE !
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