Russian cars on the Blue Line

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Russian cars on the Blue Line

Postby parovozis » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:55 am

Somebody just told me that the MBTA decided to cancel the Siemens contract. Instead, it will buy Mytishchi-built used cars from the Kiev subway authority in the Ukraine.

Mytishchi-built subway car
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Somebody idea of an April fools Joke

Postby McTed » Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:14 pm

Somebody’s idea of an April fools Joke


It is to late in the procurement process to cancel the contract at this point.
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Postby MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 » Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:28 pm

it better be an April fools joke cause those are ugly looking subway cars
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Postby Xplorer2000 » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:03 pm

"I'll go with "Famous April Fools Pranks " for $100.00, Alex" :) :wink: :P LOL!!!
Actually, they kinda do resemble some of the really old Blue Line cars, that I've seen pictures of,down to the rusting grey paint job. Just minus the pantographs.
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Postby Robert Paniagua » Thu Apr 01, 2004 3:15 pm

Actually, they look more like the Toronto TTC Gloucester-style coaches. Based on the looks of these cars, they must have been made in 1963 or 64, and they are almost as long as the Red Line cars here, or maybe even longer.
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Postby JayZ » Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:14 pm

Actually, having been to Russia, I got to ride those cars (they are a standard design throughout all the major cities of the ex-soviet union), and I must say that though ugly and practically bare, their traction is actually pretty good. The model I got to ride in (it looked just like the one in the picture, but I was told there were many similar ones) was built in the early to mid 70's, it's a followup to a similar design that was built in the 60's, that's why they look 60-ish. Some are still in service, even though now they are actively being retired. They have a maximum speed of about 100kph (60mph), as opposed to the Hawker-Siddley's 40mph, and wicked acceleration.
Despite those couple of pluses I just listed, they also have: no A/C, no recycling doors, no chimes, no passenger safety systems, no accumulators (their lights go out at every power cut-out point), they have windows that open (!) for ventilation, as there is no AC... need I go on? :)

Plus, their length is longer than the red line's cars, AND their width is wider than red line cars. So even if the T would have gone completely mad and would have wanted to bring those disintegrating oldies, they would not have fit on the blue line. Not to mention that there is no way in this quantum universe that the FRA would approve them :)

Nice April fools, but a little too obvious.
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Postby Xplorer2000 » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:00 pm

JayZ wrote:...they have windows that open (!) for ventilation, as there is no AC... need I go on? :)

Hmmmm.... IIRC, it wasn't all that long ago that the "T" had cars like that, as longtime riders may recall....
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Postby parovozis » Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:51 pm

This was a joke, of course. And the cars are 40+ years old, so you can'te really complain they don't have ATS, ACs, recycling doors, etc. One more point: recycling doors would be fatal for most Russian subway systems. During rush hours, trains follow each other at 40 sec. intervals. Any delays caused by someone trying to squeeze in betwen the closing doors, would irreparably disrupt the schedule.
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Russian gauge?

Postby bingdude » Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:33 pm

Did the Soviets build the Subway systems to Russian standard gauge?

If so, the gauge of those cars is about 6 inches wider than American gauge.

A little bit to make up. And yes, I am sure it won't make the turns on the Blue Line tunnel.
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Re: Russian gauge?

Postby parovozis » Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:45 pm

bingdude wrote:Did the Soviets build the Subway systems to Russian standard gauge? If so, the gauge of those cars is about 6 inches wider than American gauge. A little bit to make up. And yes, I am sure it won't make the turns on the Blue Line tunnel.


Absolutely. Forget even thinking about it. :D
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Postby efin98 » Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:46 pm

It was a nice thought though, more original than most of the ones I have seen on other sites.
It might work next year if they still aren't around, maybe a country with similar trains and a little younger :wink:
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Postby jwhite07 » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:10 pm

Next year's April Fools joke is going to be "The T has agreed to restore Arborway service!"

And the year after that...

And the year after that...

And the year after that, too...

:wink: :wink: :wink:
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Postby JayZ » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:11 pm

parovozis wrote:And the cars are 40+ years old, so you can'te really complain they don't have ATS, ACs, recycling doors, etc. One more point: recycling doors would be fatal for most Russian subway systems. During rush hours, trains follow each other at 40 sec. intervals. Any delays caused by someone trying to squeeze in betwen the closing doors, would irreparably disrupt the schedule.


Russians don't need recycling doors. I've seen how some of 'em run to a departing train, grab the doors just before they've finished closing and push them apart by force to squeeze in :)

By the way, if you ask me, I believe that American passenger safety standards are excessive by every measure. I'm not saying that the Russian opposite extreme is better, but we here gotta learn to trust people to think for themselves a little bit. The T treats people as small children, and that leads people to expect to be treated as such. They stop respecting the power and danger of the train, which leads to more incidents rather than less incidents, in my opinion.
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Postby jwhite07 » Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:52 pm

By the way, if you ask me, I believe that American passenger safety standards are excessive by every measure. I'm not saying that the Russian opposite extreme is better, but we here gotta learn to trust people to think for themselves a little bit. The T treats people as small children, and that leads people to expect to be treated as such. They stop respecting the power and danger of the train, which leads to more incidents rather than less incidents, in my opinion.


I gotta agree with you completely there. Unfortunately, the transfer of personal responsibility elsewhere and our ever-increasingly litigious society forces that to be so. Woman at McDonalds scalds herself with hot coffee, sues and gets a massive jury award out of it, and now every cup of coffee is mandated to have a written warning about what was once upon a time glaringly obvious - COFFEE MAY BE HOT. People are too oblivious or stupid to realize if they walk down the middle of an active rail line that they may be struck and killed, but then if it happens the railroad is liable and at fault because they didn't have a fence (or didn't fix the hole someone cut in it) to prevent people from walking down the middle of the tracks. Need I go on?

In Russia, and a lot of other countries that still have some sense, you spill coffee all over yourself and get scalded, somebody will tell you not to be so stupid and careless next time, and it would hardly occur to you to try get a thin kopeck out of anyone else for your stupidity. Get hit by a train? Hey, train tracks are for trains, not people. You didn't belong there, now you're dead... maybe your friends will get the message (and they did!). That's perhaps crass and unfeeling, but it is also very practical! Once upon a time, we were like that too.

Common sense and personal responsibility are not dead everywhere, but they are dying quickly here, and these outwardly stupid (to those of us who still have the sense to notice) and ever more expensive and restrictive safety regulations are a result. The way things are going in this country, we'll soon all be sheep, too dumb to keep ourselves out of harm's way without constant supervision.

Dunno about y'all, but I just can't be trusted not to attempt to eat the little packet of silicone dessicant powder included with most electronic items. But I'm sure glad they put that warning on them. Stops me just in time. :P
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Postby JayZ » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:21 pm

:D

Dude, you hit the spot. I was laughing so hard! :)

Every time I ride the C line, and some IDIOT with his car cuts off our train, forcing the operator to slam the brakes and the train to come to a dead stop, I find myself wishing: man, if only that moron gets slightly hit by a LRV once, totaling his car, he'd be more careful next time. I mean, how STUPID can you get?! Cutting off an 85,400 pound LRV!! And they do it for one reason only: because they KNOW the train will stop. And if it won't, and the train would hit their car, they would probably end up getting a lot of money. So why SHOULD they be careful?!

The B and C lines could have been twice faster if this stupid overprotectiveness wasn't needed.

It's stupid. Just stupid. There's nothing else to say about this situation.
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