South Station Expansion Project Discussion

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South Station Expansion Project Discussion

Postby Teamdriver » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:39 am

The man must have found an old Monopoly game and thinks the money is real..........

South Station critical component in Patrick transportation plan
Governor’s $850m transit plan seeks added tracks to fuel rail growth

'' When South Station opened in 1899, it had 28 tracks that sprawled from Atlantic Avenue to Fort Point Channel. Today, with only 13 tracks, trains idle outside the station while they wait for other trains to vacate berths, causing maddening delays.

Governor Deval Patrick wants to change that with an $850 million South Station expansion project, one of the major components of his sweeping transportation plan that includes projects across the state costing billions.

Patrick is preparing to brief State House leaders and committee leaders on the plan next Tuesday, as legislators begin to debate the tax increases he has proposed to help pay for it.

There are vocal critics of a South Station expansion. But on the governor’s a lengthy list of what many view as pipe dreams and long shots, the South Station expansion is one being pushed hardest — and one that is considered more likely than most to succeed.''

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... story.html
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby NH2060 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:26 pm

Prediction: By the time they're finished with this there won't be any money left for South Coast Snail. Not that it's going to get built anytime soon with that pesky electrification requirement built in.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby The EGE » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:22 pm

NH2060 wrote:Prediction: By the time they're finished with this there won't be any money left for South Coast Snail. Not that it's going to get built anytime soon with that pesky electrification requirement built in.


Well, that wouldn't be the worst. Every single other southside service increase - increased Worcester and Providence/Rhode Island service, Springfield and/or Inland Route service, more NEC Amtrak trains, ramping the Fairmount up to near-rapid transit frequency, regular service to Foxboro, potential higher-frequency short-turn services on the Worcester or other lines, etc - is ultimately going to depend on more tracks at South Station. Every single one of those can be added piecemeal, in a politically and financially viable manner, unlike the whole-hog SCR.

So regardless of whether South Coast Rail happens, South Station does need to.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby NH2060 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:54 pm

The EGE wrote:
NH2060 wrote:Prediction: By the time they're finished with this there won't be any money left for South Coast Snail. Not that it's going to get built anytime soon with that pesky electrification requirement built in.


Well, that wouldn't be the worst. Every single other southside service increase - increased Worcester and Providence/Rhode Island service, Springfield and/or Inland Route service, more NEC Amtrak trains, ramping the Fairmount up to near-rapid transit frequency, regular service to Foxboro, potential higher-frequency short-turn services on the Worcester or other lines, etc - is ultimately going to depend on more tracks at South Station. Every single one of those can be added piecemeal, in a politically and financially viable manner, unlike the whole-hog SCR.

So regardless of whether South Coast Rail happens, South Station does need to.

Oh I completely agree. If anything I see the prospect of not having any funding left for SCR after this is finished as a true Win-Win. If they're going to spend that much on one project this would be the project to "waste" taxpayer money on. And, IIRC, Amtrak's plan of adding an extra track from Readville to Rte. 128 and Canton is dependent on expanding South Station's capacity.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:27 pm

Also, with the post office currently downsizing, now is the time to act to reclaim what was the railroad's to begin with. I completely agree as to what has been said regarding South Coast Rail. As New England's most important terminal, any minor line addition consideration needs to take a back seat.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby Teamdriver » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:59 pm

Okay then , Devalue , lets roll with South Station, altho Clarke's has closed ( Clarke's at South Station in Boston Has Closed , http://bostonrestaurants.blogspot.com/2 ... n-has.html ). Maybe we can get Dot ave to be open all the way through too!
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby The EGE » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:20 pm

The plan as I have seen it is for Dot Ave to reopen with the additional tracks.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:36 am

Dot is, and always has been a public way owned by the City of Boston. They have acceded that the USPS blocks it off as a security and safety measure, but if that area (or part therof) ceases to be used by the USPS, then the street should return to normal use. It is an artery. Even as a railroad freight house, I think that a divided section allowing for trucks only would be more desireable than to have the entire roadway restricted.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby Teamdriver » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:17 am

They will probably make it like Washington street ,restrictions up the yazoo, taxis and buses only, put some bricks or cobblestones down and make it quaint along side the channel if there is room.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby jonnhrr » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:59 pm

Looking at SS on a satellite image, looks like it will be tight fit to add to the yard throat for the extra tracks. Perhaps they will have to branch off way back where the curve begins, under I-93.

I hope this goes through although I'm not crazy about the tax increases (guess there can't possibly be any places in the state government where they could make cuts and/or increase efficiency). At least it's being spent on something worthwhile.

Also regarding the South Coast I thought I saw something in the plan about Diesel powered trains, so maybe they've dropped the electrification idea.

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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby MBTA3247 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:09 pm

It may end up designed such that the easternmost tracks are only accessible from the Old Colony lines.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm

Doubt it. Here's the map as built. Looking at it, it seems as if it's a wide enough area for every accress to co-exist easily and peacefully. As you can see, there was a criss-cross there which actually gave the Traveler St. Approach an advantage. I have confidence in the T's Engineering department- they're world class. If NH could do it in 1899 with hammers, then the T can do it now with computer assisted special custom track benders.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby MBTA3247 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:40 pm

Looking at current and historic aerial photos of South Station, the present day platforms extend several hundred feet farther south than their steam-era predecessors, with the yard throat being pushed similarly farther south. Recreating the 1899 track layout in the smaller footprint available today would require the ladder tracks to be at sharper angles, which might not be practical for operations. We'll have to wait and see what the T comes up with.
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Re: South Station critical component in Patrick transportati

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:05 pm

I think that they'll be fine. The worst case scenario if that happens, which I would be very surprised if it did, would be to put track ends stubbing Dot where the P.O. is now. I've got more of a worry that somehow the P.O. is going to do a reversal from their stated exodus and hold onto their Dot property. As federally used property, they trump the Comm. :-(
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Re: South Station Expansion Project Discussion

Postby BostonUrbEx » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:32 pm

Dear Friends of South Station,

I am pleased to announce that the Environmental Notification Form (ENF) for the South Station Expansion project is now available for public review and comment. MassDOT submitted the ENF to the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act (MEPA) Office on March 15. In the ENF, MassDOT outlines the potential environmental consequences of expanding South Station, as well as our preliminary understandings of the transportation and other benefits that we can anticipate from the project.

We are looking for your comments and feedback on the Environmental Notification Form. Please join us at a Public Scoping Session where you can ask questions, provide comments, and describe your vision for the future of South Station.

The Public Scoping Session will be held on:

Monday April 1, 2013
4:00 PM
One South Station, Second Floor
Atlantic Avenue entrance


Prior to the Public Scoping Session, you can read the ENF on the project website. The document is also available for review at the State Transportation Library and at the Massachusetts State Library. Copies are also available upon request. Our latest Project Fact Sheet summarizes the ENF as well.

If you cannot attend the Public Scoping Session, you can also submit comments on the South Station Expansion project by mail, fax, or email. Submission information is below:

Secretary Richard K. Sullivan, Jr.
Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs
MEPA Office
EEA # 15028
Attention: Holly Johnson, MEPA Analyst
100 Cambridge Street, Suite 900
Boston, MA 02114
Fax: 617-626-1181
Email: Holly.S.Johnson@state.ma.us

Comments submitted by mail, fax, or email must be received by April 9, 2013.

This meeting is accessible to people with disabilities and those with limited English proficiency. Accessibility and language services will be provided free of charge, upon request, as available. Such services include documents in alternate formats, translated documents, assistive listening devices, and interpreters (including American Sign Language). For more information or to request reasonable accommodations and/or language services please contact Kerri Chace at kchace@reginavilla.com or 617-357-5772 x16.

Please also forward this notice to anyone you think may have an interest in this project.

We are looking forward to hearing from you!

Katherine S. Fichter
South Station Expansion Project Manager
MassDOT Office of Transportation Planning
katherine.fichter@state.ma.us
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