monies from the T to the highways?

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Postby efin98 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:07 pm

ST214 wrote:
efin98 wrote:3. probably new locomotives to replace those the GP40s and the screamers


BAD efin!!!!! GP40's need to be replaced, but how DARE YOU say the screamers need to be replaced??? They, for the most part, run fine. Every loco has the8ir hiccups every now and then, but the screamers are the best on the road now. They are not going anywhere and i think the T is showing that by sending out 1014 to be repaired. BTW, I was told that 1006 and 1011 WILL follow 1014 out to be fixed. Please tell me thi is true!!!! Then, when all 18 are running again, let's give them a permanent home NORTHSIDE ONLY!!!!!!!


They would be about 40 years old by the time the proposal alotment would come into effect, how long do you think they can last!!!! Even if they are great locomotives they can't last forever, best to have money to replace them allotted AND NOT HAVE TO USE IT FOR A WHILE than having no money alotted at all.
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Postby CJ » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:17 pm

It would be nice for all our wishes to come true, and all the LEGAL obligations to happen, arborway etc...


Would be nice for blue to get extended both ways (charles/lynn), new orange line cars (desperately needed), arborway, finishing up the stations, killing off the rest of the old diesel's, even a CR stop @ wonderland might be something (but pointless if blue goes to lynn) etc..

BUT, all knowing, it will get spent on Phase III somehow, though there is federal funding, we all know how the money "evaporates"

We can only wish, eh?
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Postby efin98 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:03 pm

CJ wrote:BUT, all knowing, it will get spent on Phase III somehow, though there is federal funding, we all know how the money "evaporates"

We can only wish, eh?


You can wish that to happen but reality is different- those mentioned actually will happen EVENTUALLY despite the accusations of inpropriaty by folks like you who make up wild accusations when they don't like that their pet projects don't happen.

New cars ARE coming. The extentions WILL happen. You can't expect things to happen overnight. To do so is to deceive yourself.
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Postby Charliemta » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:15 pm

Efin98,

The reality and bottom line is that the Silverline Phase III tunnel is a scandalous waste of scarce transit dollars for Massachusetts. Any citizen has a duty to complain about this waste and stupidity, and to point out that transit funding could be used much more effectively on other projects.

The other projects that CJ mentioned deserve a much higher priority over the useless Silverline Phase III. The new Silverline tunnel adds virtually no value to Boston's transit system. It fails to provide even one new station where there isn't already one, and it will do little to alleviate the overcrowded Central (Green Line) subway. And of course it will be very, very expensive, robbing scarce funds from other much more needed projects.
Long live the "El"
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Postby efin98 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:26 pm

Charliemta wrote:Efin98,

The reality and bottom line is that the Silverline Phase III tunnel is a scandalous waste of scarce transit dollars for Massachusetts. Any citizen has a duty to complain about this waste and stupidity, and to point out that transit funding could be used much more effectively on other projects.


That's your own biassed opinion, the governor does not have to listen to ONLY YOU nor does he have to do ONLY WHAT YOU LIKE. It's his right to proposed what is spent on what, don't like it don't vote for him in 2006. He has his reasons for funding certain projects first, just as you have you reasons for DEMANDING what YOU ALONE want done first.

The other projects that CJ mentioned deserve a much higher priority over the useless Silverline Phase III.


Deserve is the key word. In your opinion they deserve the priority but in my opinion they do not deserve priority. Popular with railfans doesn't mean a thing, what is needed most BASED ON ACTUAL FACTS deserves to get done first.

The new Silverline tunnel adds virtually no value to Boston's transit system. It fails to provide even one new station where there isn't already one,and it will do little to alleviate the overcrowded Central (Green Line) subway. And of course it will be very, very expensive, robbing scarce funds from other much more needed projects.


That's your take on it, and in actuallity it's wrong. There are three new stations with transit on the waterfront part of the Silver Line where there is no transit now at adequate levels. Compare that to the Green Line that has bus routes service practically every station on between Kenmore and North Station that have heavilly used bus routes connecting at multiple points to the rest of the city. Can't say the same for the waterfront now can you...[/quote]
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Postby ST214 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:39 pm

Aw c'mon Efin, with some TLC, the Screamers will run for MANY years to come. I predict they will live longer than the FP10's, and they were 50 when they finally dumped them. And guess what, they're STILL going strong on Metro-North. My vote is to keep the screamers forever, as they are beloved by me, and look good too.
Hoping for a rebirth of the Screamer fleet.
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Postby efin98 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:54 pm

ST214 wrote:Aw c'mon Efin, with some TLC, the Screamers will run for MANY years to come. I predict they will live longer than the FP10's, and they were 50 when they finally dumped them. And guess what, they're STILL going strong on Metro-North. My vote is to keep the screamers forever, as they are beloved by me, and look good too.


Their counterparts all over the country are all getting retired at ages much younger than them, doubt they can hold onto their great characteristics for longer than a few years without having their needed rebuild outpricing the cost of a new locomotive...My heart says they should live on, but my gut tells me they will only make it to 40 before needing retirement.
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Postby N.Y. State Of Mind » Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:58 pm

efin98 wrote:That's your own biassed opinion, the governor does not have to listen to ONLY YOU nor does he have to do ONLY WHAT YOU LIKE. It's his right to proposed what is spent on what, don't like it don't vote for him in 2006. He has his reasons for funding certain projects first, just as you have you reasons for DEMANDING what YOU ALONE want done first.


Biased? Do you actually believe that opposition to the Silver Line Phase III tunnel is biased? What's biased is Michael Mulhern's insistence on the bus tunnel, and his opposition to streetcars, despite the fact that streetcars on the Silver Line Phase I route would provide direct service, from the largely poor, and minority, population of Roxbury, and South End, to downtown Boston, instead of bypassing downtown for Logan Airport, via the practically useless bus tunnel. As it is right now, they're being cheated out of an actual rail transit service, having to make due with a bus that is rapid transit in name only. Can the Governor explain to his constituents what the hell is so important about providing direct access from Roxbury, to Logan, on a route that dosen't even go through the heart of Downtown Boston? As a matter of fact, how about if you explain the importance of the project to us?

efin98 wrote:Deserve is the key word. In your opinion they deserve the priority but in my opinion they do not deserve priority. Popular with railfans doesn't mean a thing, what is needed most BASED ON ACTUAL FACTS deserves to get done first.


Do you actually think that a bus tunnel, which manages to not serve the heart of downtown Boston, and is very cost-inefficient compared to other alternatives, should take precedence over more beneficial projects? And, what actual facts do you speak of? Most of the people who are not railfans, but know about the Silver Line Phase III tunnel, and its alternatives, will tell you that the bus tunnel the wrong choice. Also, I'm telling all of this to you not as a railfan, but someone with common sense.

efin98 wrote:That's your take on it, and in actuallity it's wrong. There are three new stations with transit on the waterfront part of the Silver Line where there is no transit now at adequate levels. Compare that to the Green Line that has bus routes service practically every station on between Kenmore and North Station that have heavilly used bus routes connecting at multiple points to the rest of the city. Can't say the same for the waterfront now can you...


No, he's completely right. He was referring to Phase III, and only to Phase III.
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Postby CJ » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:49 am

efin98 wrote:
CJ wrote:BUT, all knowing, it will get spent on Phase III somehow, though there is federal funding, we all know how the money "evaporates"

We can only wish, eh?


You can wish that to happen but reality is different- those mentioned actually will happen EVENTUALLY despite the accusations of inpropriaty by folks like you who make up wild accusations when they don't like that their pet projects don't happen.

New cars ARE coming. The extentions WILL happen. You can't expect things to happen overnight. To do so is to deceive yourself.


You know, I tend to feel like I have a more "objective" view of the posts going on here, what I said was only my opinion, the T always seems like it mysteriously runs out of money, why, I dont know. N.Y. State Of Mind, and Charliemta both do agree with me, phase III does seem to be a pet project.

However This is a forum of public opinion so to speak, and I really dont like being accused of making wild accusations, back to the point on being objective, and im gonna be honest on this, efin, you really tend to have your own wild ideas, and critize anyone who thinks other than yourself.

But back on the main point, think of Silver Line Ridership, compare it to the green line, its clogged, building a wider(as in allowing more cars to fit, guess wider isnt a good term, but you get the jist)/new tunnel downtown for it would be better, but will it happen? probably not.

And being patient, how long have we waited for arborway to be restored? The blue line "modernization" has been going on for how long? and countless others, I dont expect it to happen overnight, but when your going on years, and nothing is done...I do get to get a tad bit impatient.
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Postby trainhq » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:00 pm

The Silver Lie bus tunnel is a 750 million dollar waste
of money. This business about a "one seat ride from
Roxbury to the airport" is a bunch of malarkey. The
real answer is that if the T can't connect the Silver Line
to the airport, they're left with nothing but a stub-end
two mile long bus line that will leave them being constantly badgered by residents for the next 30 years
wanting to turn it into light rail. In addition, it means
also on having to give up on converting other areas
to BRT too; basically, it means the T would lose the
BRT battle.

So should it be. The irony is, that the 750 million for that stupid bus tunnel would pay for Green Line to West Medford and most of Blue Line to Lynn, which, if implemented, would silence a lot of the T's critics. The
conservation law people will have to go over the T's
head, and get the state and feds to re-allocate the
money to the right projects, BRT be damned.
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Postby #5 - Dyre Ave » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:34 pm

I agree 100% with trainhq, CJ, Charliemta and N.Y. State of Mind. I do think the Phase 3 tunnel is a complete waste of $750 million. I simply don't see a reason to build it. Phase 2/Waterfront is a different story. Once the T gets enough dual-modes, they can make the direct trip to Logan Airport from South Station happen. That has the potential of being a popular route because it will connect two major transportation hubs and will run in the Waterfront bus tunnel free of car and truck traffic.

But the Phase 3 tunnel will only duplicate the existing Red Line service (and I have a feeling Green and Orange line riders from both directions will still transfer to the RL to get to South Station). I don't live in Roxbury, but if I did I know I would much rather have a one-seat ride to Park St/Downtown Crossing and Government Center/State St than a one-seat ride to Logan Airport. And I'd be mighty pissed to know that such a link existed until 1987 when the Orange Line ran to the heart of Roxbury at Dudley Sq as well as Eglston Sq on its way to Forest Hills. I'm sure there are tons of Roxbury residents who still feel that way. Putting tracks, wires and streetcars on Washington Street and connecting them to the Green Line at Boylston, gives residents of Roxbury and points south exactly what they have been clamoring for - a one seat ride to major points downtown. And that's what needs to built. SL Washington St will only serve a tiny corner of downtown at South Station if Phase 3 is built. It will require Washington St riders to transfer to already-overcrowded Green or Orange Line trains to get to the major downtown destination points.

If the T is in such financial dire straits as they claim to be, then they should NOT be feeling the need to spend $750 million dollars on a bus tunnel with questionable benefits. That money needs to go elsewhere - to fix the existing system. Then, when the T is on better financial footing, they need to go after projects with real benefits such as the Lynn and Medford extensions and light rail to Dudley Sq.
Last edited by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby efin98 » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:53 pm

Enough with the Silver Line garbage and stop highjacking the thread. If you want to continue bashing the Silver Line do it in the appropriate thread otherwise get back on topic.
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Moderatour's notice

Postby Robert Paniagua » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:59 pm

Yeah thanks Ed, Everyone,

Let's talk about the Silver Line in the "Official BRT thread". This is for monies between railways and highways, not Silver Line Bashing. Thank you for your advanced cooperation.
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Postby trigonalmayhem » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:55 am

just out of curiosity, has there been much support for the silver line from anywhere outside the MBTA lately? It seems like the only things I ever hear about it are bad things, except for when the T talks it up in their propoganda, er ... news releases. It would be nice if someone in the media would take the time to do a good survey of silver line riders asking them what they thought of the service and what option they would rather have, since they're the ones it's going to directly affect. It seems like the MBTA's community meetings are more a way for them to tell people how things are going to be than to seek out legitimate input (and maybe to identify the strongest points of contention so they can make some effort to appease people enough to take whatever they've got planned for them).

Of course judging by the protests on the opening day of the silver line, I seriously doubt the people in roxbury got what they really felt they needed. It seems asinine to spend more money than you have to on inferior service that people probably don't want.
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Re: Moderatour's notice

Postby apodino » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:00 pm

Robert Paniagua wrote:Yeah thanks Ed, Everyone,

Let's talk about the Silver Line in the "Official BRT thread". This is for monies between railways and highways, not Silver Line Bashing. Thank you for your advanced cooperation.


Rob, I understand where you are coming from as moderator and Ed should let you do your job instead of trying to do it for you but I disagree that this has turned into a silver line bashing thread completely. The thread was talking about money for needed projects such as Blue Line to Lynn, Green Line to West Medford, Blue-Red Line connector, FR-NB etc. The problem that most of us have on here is that the T has the money for some of these needed projects and has spent it on things that aren't as useful and necessary instead, one of which happens to be Phase 3. I don't call that "Silver Line Bashing", I call that criticizing T management for not spending the money on the more necessary projects, and if you read everyones posts on this topic, they ALL mention these projects as better ways of spending taxpayer money. I do have a comment about the silver line itself but will make that elsewhere.

That having been said, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the appropriations bills in congress directed toward MA. I don't think a lot of the funds will be missing since everyone wants their share of pork for their districts and not passing bills can lead to them getting blamed and costing them votes. Certainly not at the big dig level, but I believe Capuano is on one of the commitees that deals with this stuff. I will throw this question out for discussion. If you were the MBTA manager and you were guaranteed money for just one expansion project on the table, which one would it be and why?
Rich "Dino" Martin
A one time happy rider of Arborway and the old Washington St. El.
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