Future of the Blue Line ?

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Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:01 pm

With all the renovations on the Blue Line lately, while watching this interesting little video I wondered if this could be the future of the T. It's Paris' Line 1 and fully automated. It's been remodeled from the old system of manually operated cars with some additions such as the station gates, etc., but it goes to show that it can be done with an old system. Line 1 began in 1900, older than our R/T, and is operated with MP59 cars which are rubber-tired/steel wheel combinations. I found myself imagining at 2:22 in this video that I was leaving Aquarium Station outbound heading under the Harbor. See if you get the same feeling !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BVOruJj ... ure=b-vrec
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby Adams_Umass_Boston » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:29 pm

Hello Paul,
Why just the Blue line? It seems it will be the inevitability of all rapid transit lines.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby jr145 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:01 pm

I don't think you'll ever see full automation in Massachusetts. Heck they can't even do it w/ the pike. When they eliminated some of the toll booths for fast lanes they sent the extra workers to hand out tickets where there used to be the machine that simply stuck one out for you.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby Mcoov » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:00 pm

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:Why just the Blue line? It seems it will be the inevitability of all rapid transit lines.

Probably because it's the least traveled and thus the least consequential.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby 3rdrail » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:56 pm

Adams_Umass_Boston wrote:Hello Paul,
Why just the Blue line? It seems it will be the inevitability of all rapid transit lines.

Only because of that section that I mentioned at 2:22 that reminds me of that section where you plunge under the Harbor outbound after Aquarium. You're right, if it came here, it would eventually spread to all the R/T lines. I personally am of the opinion that although it's going to be a long while, that eventually that it will come to Boston. If Paris, an older system than our R/T can do it, so can we.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby jamesinclair » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:10 am

jr145 wrote:I don't think you'll ever see full automation in Massachusetts. Heck they can't even do it w/ the pike. When they eliminated some of the toll booths for fast lanes they sent the extra workers to hand out tickets where there used to be the machine that simply stuck one out for you.


France isnt exactly the land of pushover labor.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby MarkB » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:59 am

jamesinclair wrote:
jr145 wrote:I don't think you'll ever see full automation in Massachusetts. Heck they can't even do it w/ the pike. When they eliminated some of the toll booths for fast lanes they sent the extra workers to hand out tickets where there used to be the machine that simply stuck one out for you.


France isnt exactly the land of pushover labor.



All the workers were shifted to other lines or promoted.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:45 am

At least some progress: the fare system has been automated since December 2006 - no more tokens or station agents (collectors).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby CRail » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:51 pm

3rdrail wrote:If Paris, an older system than our R/T can do it, so can we.
R36 Combine Coach wrote:At least some progress:

We can do it, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should. I don't think our own obsolescence is "progress."
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:26 pm

CRail wrote:We can do it, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should. I don't think our own obsolescence is "progress."

I would tend to disagree with you there, maistro. There will come a time when major work and new construction costs won't be much different. At that point, the state will have a decision as to what they want to do- replicate, update a manual system, or update an automatic system. As far as automation is concerned, human error seems to be by far the cause of the latest batch of accidents on the Green Line which automation would have prevented. On the Rapid Transit Lines, if nothing else, those "cattle gates" at the stations which interface with car doors would keep all of these nitwits on the platform where they belong and not in the pit.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby CRail » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:06 pm

Human error, while undoubtedly an issue, could be minimized by proper instruction, removal of semi-automation (a false sense of security) and, let's face it, better hiring practices (not a randomized selection based on where your great great grandparents moved here from). I stick to my stance; once we replace ourselves, what are we going to do?
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby RailBus63 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:28 pm

With all due respect - this seems like a billion-dollar solution in search of a problem.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby Elcamo » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:05 pm

3rdrail wrote:
CRail wrote:We can do it, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should. I don't think our own obsolescence is "progress."

. As far as automation is concerned, human error seems to be by far the cause of the latest batch of accidents on the Green Line which automation would have prevented.


How can you establish automation on a line that runs in mixed traffic, and on an antiquated signalling system in the tunnels? I can understand running trains autonomously when there are no potential obstacles (disregard all those tourists and drunks on the Red Line), but I doubt that it could work on the Green Line in it's current format. Every autonomous train in the world is run in it's own, grade seperated ROW for a reason.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby 3rdrail » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:39 pm

Lets not mix apples and oranges here. This is not the Green Line as you know it. It's in the future when the system just gets too old and can't be patchwork repaired. A completely new install may be attempted with all new rules. No more mixed running. Cross overs for vehicular traffic, new signal system, station door guards, etc. I'm not talking about making the Type 9's automated. Read the post.
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Re: Future of the Blue Line ?

Postby Matthew » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:03 am

Considering that people are talking about autonomous cars in the near future, I don't think an autonomous trolley in mixed traffic is all that unimaginable.

But that's neither here nor now. What a fully automatic rapid transit system buys you is immense savings on operating costs, and the freedom to increase frequency and span of service at relatively low cost. At some point, it may become financially worthwhile to retrofit.
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