Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby 3rdrail » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:18 pm

By the way, before I forget again, welcome to RRN and I hope that your experience here is a pleasant one. The reason for El connecting trolley lines was that each town generally wanted a connection with Forest Hills because it was the gateway for most of the City of Boston. The Norfolk and Bristol Street Railway Company built "Westwood Park" in Islington. We have lost the connotation of "park" in our era. Back in the day, families would head to various parks on the weekends as a means of recreation, having picnics, sometimes amusement rides, ball rooms, and theatre. N&B had a money maker with Westwood Park. The Medway and Dedham Street Railway Company headed out into Westwood Center from High Street, Dedham. Here's an old plow at about 3800 Washington St. Rozzie near Forest Hills in which you can see the track's positioning also. Note the horse-drawn funeral procession in the background.
Image
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby highgreen215 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:00 am

Where in today's Westwood (Islingtonj?) was Westwood Park located? I know there was a carbarn where the playground is today at the junction of East St. and Washington St.
Another line ran out the present day Rte 109 to Westwood Center from the Charles River Loop. Was that the same company that ran through Islington? About a mile on the south side of Westwood, on Rte 109, there was a car barn. You can find the site by watching for the collapsed remains of a building with field stone walls next to a gas station.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby charding » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:10 am

Well, I had to haul out my copy of Transportation Bulletin #66, August 1961-July 1962, the Norfolk & Bristol Street Railway, published by the Connecticut Valley Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society - every once in a while, a copy shows up for sale on Ebay.

First, the street railway never went to Westwood - it connected Norwood and East Walpole thru Walpole with Foxboro - and via Foxboro to Wrentham - and Mansfield. But it did build a park - the Lake View Park - just off the line from Foxboro at Davis Corner to Wrentham.Their power station was located in South Walpole just across the street from the South Walpole railroad station [now the post office] and next to the fire station. The line began operations in 1899 and went out of business in 1919 in the aftermath of a strike. Foreclosure sale was held in October 1920.

Lots of these street car lines built amusement parks to generate busines and the N&B was no exception.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby Leo Sullivan » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:35 am

The line on Rte. 109 was the Dedham and Franklin which I think became the Medway and Franklin and was leased to the Milford & Uxbridge. In those days they made poscards of anything so, here is a picture of their carbarn.
LS
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby 3rdrail » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:16 pm

highgreen215 wrote:Where in today's Westwood (Islingtonj?) was Westwood Park located? I know there was a carbarn where the playground is today at the junction of East St. and Washington St.


It was where Brookfield Road circles - accross from the southern end of the Roche Bros. parking lot off 1A.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby highgreen215 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:44 pm

I used to live in Foxboro so I know exactly where Lakeview Park was. If you follow Rte. 140 out of Foxboro toward Wrentham,
Lakeview Rd. is on the left maybe a quarter of a mile before 140 goes under Rte. 1. On Lakeview Rd. the trolley park was on the right where the old Lakeview Ballroom, now a function hall, is located. The "lake" itself is just a weedy pond, and the park site looks to be pretty small as far as trolley parks go - not too impressive.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby one-track mind » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:59 pm

Speaking of structures, the one day I spent in Boston took me out to Forest Hills on the Arborway car. Does it still have the largest trainshed west of Europe, or did my imagination embellish its incredible delapidation? (This was in '83.)

The last track map Leo posted is a real gem. The passing turnout ("Kern's") on Bussey St. is only the 3rd of its type (called a "thrown-over" turnout or a "straight" one, the latter because the cars bound in either direction ran straight onto their passing track) I've seen in the couple of dozen trolley-track maps I've collected. I've heard they were especially popular on horsecar lines (whose passing places usually lacked any moveable switch point) because they required neither a sidewards tug by the horse nor the lurching jolt passengers on cars leaving the "split" OR "siding" types of passing turnout experienced when their wheels bumped over the shallow section of flangeway needed to steer opposing cars onto the right track without the animal's guidance. The thrown-over turnout also gave carriages a chance to pass the dang trolley car between one of them and the next without driving over any rails themselve, and their rarity on electric lines is the main reason I think double track off-center in roadways on trolley lines was limited almost entirely to passing places (except where roadways had been widened on one side, for diagonal parking, etc.).

I hope I'm not getting too far off the beam, in what I guess is a site for railfans in general, by using the terminology transit borrowed from highway usage (-iany .e., "turnout", more like the passing places on mountain roads than any sort of switch). Street railways really were a road-rail mix. Speaking of which, someone will have to fill me in on how the trackless trolleys are doing. We're all being so careful to turn light switches off that electrifying bus lines 'jes doesn't seem to occur to us.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby CircusFreakGRITZ » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:28 am

one-track mind wrote:Speaking of structures, the one day I spent in Boston took me out to Forest Hills on the Arborway car. Does it still have the largest trainshed west of Europe, or did my imagination embellish its incredible delapidation? (This was in '83.)

Arborway line was discontinued in the mid 80's. The yard is now a bus yard.

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=85852
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby Austin023 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:17 am

CircusFreakGRITZ wrote:
one-track mind wrote:Speaking of structures, the one day I spent in Boston took me out to Forest Hills on the Arborway car. Does it still have the largest trainshed west of Europe, or did my imagination embellish its incredible delapidation? (This was in '83.)

Arborway line was discontinued in the mid 80's. The yard is now a bus yard.

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=85852


That train shed has been gone quite a while now. I recall back in 1999 or 2000 there were still a few junked PCC cars lying in the open lot where the shed used to stand---pretty much all that remained of it other than remnants of tracks. Since then the area has been paved over and is now used as a bus yard and parking lot. You can still see a pair of old trolley tracks coming out of the old lot (and apparently continue under the current street pavement) by the corner of Washington and Arborway. That is really the only clue left as to the site's former use far as I am aware.
Not sure exactly when the old train barn was torn down, but probably around/after 1990 once the old El had been removed from Washington St.
The green line branch to Arborway was "suspended" Dec 30th, 1985 and never reinstated; that line ran the old PCC cars till the end I am pretty sure.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby highgreen215 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:21 pm

Those tracks you see "into and out of" Arborway Yard have never seen a trolley. They, and the unused trolley station at the northern end of Forest Hills station, were installed after the Arborway line was axed in 1985 and in anticipation of the "mandated" restoration of trolley service. The original "in" tracks to the yard disappeared with the major regrading of the area. The "out" tracks from the yard were several hundred feet to the north on Washington Street.
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby Arborwayfan » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:14 am

Moreover, the tracks you see today are the second set of replacement track. For a while the tracks crossed the new SWC corridor (under construction) in a private ROW on the inbound side of the street (the Arboway?), across the street from where they built the unused station. I am not sure if those tracks were ever used, either. Anyone remember?
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:32 am

Not sure about your description. There was originally tracks running in and out of Forest Hills Station Lower and the Arborway, then for many years cars ran out of the Arborway only, a block north from where they entered at Wash/Arborway (Pic 2). Then, there was this configuration pictured (#1) which is self explanatory. Finally, there was the "Streetcar tracks and station that never was" on the new station's apron leading in and out to/from the Arborway. During street work, the these tracks were removed on the street. I think that you are referring to the tracks that were installed in the first picture, which were opposite the Arborway off the outbound side of Washington Street by the old Esso oil company storage tanks. This area would be where the dump truck is pictured in the second pic.
http://photos.cityrails.net/showpic/?20 ... s&BOOL=ALL
http://photos.greatrails.net/showpic/?2 ... s&BOOL=ALL
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby BigUglyCat » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:18 am

Thanks for the links, Paul. I took the opportunity to review all your NERail photos. Paul has always had an eye for composition, such as:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=69637
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby Teamdriver » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:03 pm

I am not sure when you all are talking about, but the trolleys could go right or left out of the Arborway onto Wahington street.If they went right they could go to the end of the MTA complex almost to Brookley road where they re- entered the complex. There were alot of buildings in there , not sure of all the uses, bus or trolley service. This would be the late 50's , early 60's .
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Re: Forest Hills-Dedham-Walpole Streetcar Line Questions

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:31 pm

Forest Hills Station and the Arborway were also connected with inbound Washington St. as well, tying into Egleston Square and the Central Subway system via the Pleasant St. Portal as well, Kev. A popular shuttle was the "Back and Forth", so named for the back and forth short run from the Arborway to Egleston Square and back. I think that the section that Arborwayfan was referring to was where the first photo in my post above is, when they were installing the streetcar station at Forest Hills which would ultimately get so much service :-(.

Thanks, BUC ! Here's a Christmas present from me to you ! http://photos.cityrails.net/showpic/?20 ... e&BOOL=ALL
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