Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell...

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby newpylong » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:05 pm

The LRTA Route 13 bus also still swaps with the MBTA Route 352 on the Billerica/Burlington line.


blackcap wrote:LRTA's Route 12 goes to Burlington Mall, where connections can be made to MBTA's Route 350 and to Burlington and Lexpress bus routes.

As for Woburn, the Wilmington turn-around most likely was for the EM's North Woburn-Medford Sq. service, and transfers to BERy/MTA service was made at Medford Sq. In 1970, this service was combined with MBTA's Route 103 (Medford Sq.-Sullivan) to form the current Route 134.

Page 77 of the MBTA route history has a brief history of Route 134 and its predecessors.

This map (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1899_Massachusetts_electric_railways.jpg) shows a loop at the Woburn-Wilmington line with some service continuing to Wilmington.
newpylong
 
Posts: 3922
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:32 pm
Location: NH

Re: Eastern Mass

Postby jrc520 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:20 pm

Good to know the Sanborn Library(Which they still haven't changed the name on the website, sadly) has that much material - They haven't put it in their online catalog though.
jrc520
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Woburn, MA

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby boblothrope » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:49 pm

Gerry6309 wrote:
blackcap wrote:LRTA's Route 12 goes to Burlington Mall, where connections can be made to MBTA's Route 350 and to Burlington and Lexpress bus routes.

The more recent meets are a product of the present day transit authorities not wanting to impact each other's fare territories.


It's LRTA Route 14. And while the 14 and 350 do both stop at the mall, they're on different sides of the mall. It's much easier to transfer at a stop along the Mall Road.

They do overlap for a bit, and there are no local trip restrictions, which is a good thing. It would be a disservice to passengers heading to the mall or Lahey Clinic to make them transfer to a different hourly bus, just for the sake of a jurisdiction issue nobody cares about.
boblothrope
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:43 am

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby 3rdrail » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:37 pm

Gerry6309 wrote: The more recent meets are a product of the present day transit authorities not wanting to impact each other's fare territories.

Hahaha!!! I think that you're being very kind to the street railway companies, Gerry, who were known for some fierce competition back in the day. Seperation of companies by geography really was more of a matter of local ordinance or ruling by the Massachusetts Railroad Commission, such as the MRRC's decision to give the trolley freight business to Boston and Worcester Street Railway Co. and Bay State Street Railway Co. (who interchanged w/o charging with each other). A lot of companies squabbles were kept under wraps, a product of private company ownership and more "look the other way" news publications (regarding some local "controversy"). If some of these disputes got testy between electric companies they could get downright violent beween electric companies and railroads. A famous crossing incident in Santa Rosa, California developed into what was essentially a "gang war" between the RR guys and the streetcars guys. The railroad guys actually fitted their steam engines with hot water spraying sprays on the front ends of their locomotives, which they would drive into a melee and fire away with water tapped into the steam locomotive's boiler ! The trolley guys responded with sledge hammers, axes, and picks. BERy and EM had a big disagreement over the operation of the one-manned Birney Safety cars, Something happened with Boston & Worcester that they were first invited into the Central Subway System, then uninvited. The list goes on. It was a rough and tumble enterprise back then with sharks around every corner - still is. Just ask Dan Grabauskas.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby jrc520 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:16 am

Alright folks, Time to talk coverage. And by that I mean the years I should consider covering. I'm leaning towards the 1930-1940 time period, mainly out of simplicity, as well as more likely availability of material. However, if there is enough demand for a different time frame, I would be more than happy to cover what would sell better ;-) That said, I don't want to go too early - I'm sure I'd end up writing a series of several hundred page books if I went back as far as 1860-1900 era. That said, research for the project is going well, I'm keeping an eye on eBay for some books I know to contain good amounts of information(though if anyone sees something, feel free to shoot me a PM in case I miss it).

As for rivalries, the towns could get pretty testy too - Newburyport once froze over the trolley tracks of Main St during a dispute!
jrc520
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Woburn, MA

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:39 pm

As I already indicated, these are giants appearing as midgets regarding subject content. Even an extra year here or there can make a huge difference - double or triple required content. One formula that I've seen done effectively recently is to hone in on one decade. The example that I speak of is Brad Clarke's "Streetcar Lines of the Hub - the 1940's Heyday of Electric Transit in Boson". Brad is one of a very small group (2 IMHO) who are the pre-eminent local traction writers, and I suspect that the reasons that Brad focused on the 40's were that 1) it was a busy period with a lot of lines, and 2) to go out of a decade would involve much more than could be conered well in any one book. I agree that a decade is a good period, a year probably not wide enough and difficult to get full documentation on. And on the other hand, the problem is that over multiple decades, you get lines and companies that started, ended, expanded, truncated, built, altered, and merged. It's sort of like the Richter Scale that was studied the other day in our earthquake - every one point = about double the force. It really comes down to after you've done your pre-analysis on what is available for info, coupled with how much you yourself want to put into your book. In essence, you have to be well versed in your subject matter well before you even think about writing a book. There are many examples out there which I will not name but we know what they are. They are the books that were done without the process that I've mentioned. They appear half-assed, hurried, and are often loaded with mistakes. If one is lucky, they have some interesting photos and that's about it.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby Gerry6309 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:30 pm

3rdrail wrote:
Gerry6309 wrote: The more recent meets are a product of the present day transit authorities not wanting to impact each other's fare territories.

Hahaha!!! I think that you're being very kind to the street railway companies, Gerry, who were known for some fierce competition back in the day. Seperation of companies by geography really was more of a matter of local ordinance or ruling by the Massachusetts Railroad Commission, such as the MRRC's decision to give the trolley freight business to Boston and Worcester Street Railway Co. and Bay State Street Railway Co. (who interchanged w/o charging with each other). A lot of companies squabbles were kept under wraps, a product of private company ownership and more "look the other way" news publications (regarding some local "controversy"). If some of these disputes got testy between electric companies they could get downright violent beween electric companies and railroads. A famous crossing incident in Santa Rosa, California developed into what was essentially a "gang war" between the RR guys and the streetcars guys. The railroad guys actually fitted their steam engines with hot water spraying sprays on the front ends of their locomotives, which they would drive into a melee and fire away with water tapped into the steam locomotive's boiler ! The trolley guys responded with sledge hammers, axes, and picks. BERy and EM had a big disagreement over the operation of the one-manned Birney Safety cars, Something happened with Boston & Worcester that they were first invited into the Central Subway System, then uninvited. The list goes on. It was a rough and tumble enterprise back then with sharks around every corner - still is. Just ask Dan Grabauskas.

I will certainly admit that the transit authorities exist by the grace of the hand (taxpayers) that feed them. Back in the day, though, good old capitalism ruled. If your neighbor didn't grant trackage rights you simply bought them out. That is how the Lynn & Boston and the Old Colony (and to a lesser extent the Middlesex and Boston) grew into the empires they were. They then had the clout to say "No subsidy - no service!", which is exactly what happened with the Gloucester Division in the early days of the Eastern Mass. The company milked its busy runs in the cities to operate the lines connecting them, however once those rail connections were lost, the outlying divisions withered away. The Quincy Division remained connected until 1948, while most of the other divisions were separated in the early thirties. Once the connection was broken, the end came quickly.
Gerry. STM/BSRA

The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
User avatar
Gerry6309
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby jrc520 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:08 am

Anyone have any books you think I should know about for this project? I just ordered Hyde Park Division, Bay State Street Railway, Dedham-Norwood-East Walpole Line, Eastern Massachusetts Street Railway (Transportation bulletin)
Roger Borrup, Carl L. Smith
For my collection, and have been reading and taking notes on the Mass Northeastern series of books by O.R. Cummings(I haven't seen any for sale, yet). What else should I be casting my net for? I figure annual reports would be a good start, as well as any other documents I can find. But having specific titles helps in searching libraries and ebay.
jrc520
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Woburn, MA

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby 3rdrail » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:56 pm

The hard cover NRHS Bulletin 69 (which is actually Bulletins 69-71) is a companion to the NRHS Bulletin 82 that you have on order. It's a pretty wide look at the equipment of the Eastern Mass and I highly recommend it. I also am very fond of Bulletin 82 in that it has a lot of anecdotal stories to go with hard fact regarding the Eastern Mass. There are other companions as well published earlier, but I suspect that these are going to be more difficult to obtain. I suggest leaving on-going searches at Ebay, BSRA, and Kevin Farrell for anything that you are looking for, or visiting one of the two libraries already mentioned if you wish to not purchase. I can tell you that you might wish to buy the reference material, because I can almost guarantee you that you will suddenly be the "EM guy to go to" regarding the EM once you get a book published. Have you contacted any publishers ? Once again, BSRA might be a good reference. See Michael Prescott.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby Gerry6309 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:20 pm

3rdrail wrote:The hard cover NRHS Bulletin 69 (which is actually Bulletins 69-71) is a companion to the NRHS Bulletin 82 that you have on order. It's a pretty wide look at the equipment of the Eastern Mass and I highly recommend it. I also am very fond of Bulletin 82 in that it has a lot of anecdotal stories to go with hard fact regarding the Eastern Mass. There are other companions as well published earlier, but I suspect that these are going to be more difficult to obtain. I suggest leaving on-going searches at Ebay, BSRA, and Kevin Farrell for anything that you are looking for, or visiting one of the two libraries already mentioned if you wish to not purchase. I can tell you that you might wish to buy the reference material, because I can almost guarantee you that you will suddenly be the "EM guy to go to" regarding the EM once you get a book published. Have you contacted any publishers ? Once again, BSRA might be a good reference. See Michael Prescott.

May I also suggest The BSRA (Jim Gately[can't find email]) and Seashore (Ed Ramsdell, ed@ramsdell.com) libraries. These abound with information on these systems. In particular the BSRA collection contains a pretty complete set of Mass. Street Railway filings from 1898 to about 1923, and an unpublished manuscript on the Eastern Mass Quincy & Brockton Divisions. Seashore has an infinite supply of pictures most of which are available electronically.
Gerry. STM/BSRA

The next stop is Washington. Change for Forest Hills Trains on the Winter St. Platform, and Everett Trains on the Summer St. Platform. This is an Ashmont train, change for Braintree at Columbia.
User avatar
Gerry6309
 
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby 3rdrail » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:58 pm

And please, please, please...don't forget how to make your book a hit...put people in it ! Look at most trolley books. They abound in volts, rivets, tractive weights, and amperes, but not a word about a conductor who was a fighter pilot in WWII, or the female motorman who was the first in the nation, etc. etc. I don't know why this is. Our brothers, the railroad hobby, are a little better at this than we. I don't know why. (Maybe I don't want to know the answer.) But, this stuff brings a cold as a rivet techno-book and makes it a complete experience, almost as if you actually lived it. Well worth the time and effort.
~Paul Joyce~
[i]Moderator: Toy Trains, Model Railroading, Outdoor and Live Steam

Paul Joyce passed away in August, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion at railroad.net.
User avatar
3rdrail
 
Posts: 5641
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby ferroequinologist » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:04 pm

3rdrail wrote:And please, please, please...don't forget how to make your book a hit...put people in it ! Look at most trolley books. They abound in volts, rivets, tractive weights, and amperes, but not a word about a conductor who was a fighter pilot in WWII, or the female motorman who was the first in the nation, etc. etc. I don't know why this is. Our brothers, the railroad hobby, are a little better at this than we. I don't know why. (Maybe I don't want to know the answer.) But, this stuff brings a cold as a rivet techno-book and makes it a complete experience, almost as if you actually lived it. Well worth the time and effort.


For the record, as an engineering student a book or volts, rivets, tractive weights, and amperes sounds fantastic to me. But for normal people, that's good advice.
ferroequinologist
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:24 pm

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby jrc520 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:54 pm

Thanks for the references! I'll surely be contacting the people recommended then. I'll keep my eyes out for that older book, as well ask keeping my eye on amazon and eBay. I'll be joining the BSRA next time they meet, since I plan on going then.

I won't be forgetting to include people. I think that will be the hardest part, because it was the least documented - one forgets that people don't last forever, and their stories need to be told sooner rather than later.

Oh, I haven't talked to publishers yet - one thing I'm looking at is self publishing, be it via Amazon, or by using some of my contacts in the book industry. Plus, this will be published, at least the text, openly in electronic format. I know that some, if not many of the photos will not be licensed for online publication, but the text and at diagrams at least I can openly publish, which will make searching easier too. I don't know which license yet, still investigating them.
jrc520
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Woburn, MA

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby The EGE » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:50 am

If you grab pictures from a slightly earlier era, anything published before January 1, 1923 is public domain in the United States.
"Give me an unobstructed right-of-way and I'll show them how to move the earth!"
User avatar
The EGE
 
Posts: 2452
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:16 pm
Location: Waiting for the C Branch

Re: Eastern Mass, Middlesex and Boston, Fitchburg and Lowell

Postby jrc520 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:00 am

Yea. I plan on using as much public domain stuff as I can. I'm all too familiar with the ugly monster that is copyright law. That said, I'm sure I'll have images that I find that will be PERFECT for the book, but a pain in the butt from a licensing standpoint. I'm already seeking out public domain images, or images that are freely licensed. I also plan on finding someone to help me redo any track charts I find, so I can release those charts freely - I'd do it myself, but I'm no graphic artist, and I'd prefer to have something that doesn't look like it was done by a 5 year old:-D
jrc520
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Woburn, MA

Previous

Return to Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests