T electrics on NEC?

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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby 130MM » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:25 am

Just to stir the pot a little, the Pawtucket Layover was designed with space for a facility to maintain MBTA electrics should that decision ever be made.

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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby jonnhrr » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:05 am

NRGeep wrote:
KEN PATRICK wrote:'big oil' follows the tax code. there is no $40bil hand-out. there is, however, federal waste propping up the 'green' jobs illusion. there is massachusetts political malfeasance in holding ne utilities/nstar merger hostage until they agreed to pay .20kwh ( about .06 todays market) for cape wind power rising to .32 in 2014. so much for 'reduction in electricity rates'. face it, there will be no 'green energy' savings. real ( cash)federal subsidies are needed to prop up economically flawed concepts. the mbta doesn't need more operating expense. ken patrick


Call it a "tax break", a subsidy or fill in the blank, the reality is that little Big Oil is on the dole. "Rep Ryan's budget maintains his recent path of supporting Big Oil at the expense of the middle class." Makes Solyndra look like a weapon of mass distraction... http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ ... g_oil.html


Could we keep the political talking points out of this discussion and just stick to railroading?

About the only wild card in this would be if the ridiculous South Coast project gets built and the requirement for it to be electrified actually is followed thorugh, then if the T has to buy electrica anyway, they might choose to electrify NEC and Stoughton branch ops (assuming the south coast uses an extension of the stoughton line).

Otherwise I would have to say electrics are a long way off at this point.

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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby Ron Newman » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:20 am

Rockingham Racer wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:Dutch, perhaps you know there is a precedent for a commuter agency to have a single line using electics: it's Chicago's Metra Electric Division and it uses the IC's [now CN's]main line south from Randolph St. Station to University Parkthe MBTA.


True. However, this line was electric under Illinois Central, long before Metra took it over. Also, it operates out of its own stations and is isolated from any other Metra operations.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby NRGeep » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:17 pm

130MM wrote:Just to stir the pot a little, the Pawtucket Layover was designed with space for a facility to maintain MBTA electrics should that decision ever be made.

DAW


Well, that's good foresite by the powers that be. Perhaps by 2032 it will be used for that purpose...
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby atsf sp » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:23 pm

The T would be the most plausible commuter railroad to get electric locos because the infrastructure is already there. But since it is the T we know that this will never happen.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby boblothrope » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:29 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:The diesels are not the problem even if we ran electrics the scheduling would be the only fix for that. You still have local trains making stops. If you are arriving into stops earlier because of better equipment, you still can't leave ahead of schedule.


Well, one of the major reasons to electrify would be the faster speeds and acceleration. So presumably they'd publish a faster schedule to account for that.

Faster speeds help everyone. Passengers get where they're going faster, the T saves on operating costs by running more trips with the same number of crews and trains, and Amtrak and the T can fit more trains into the schedule.

The main drawbacks to electrification are the costs to install the wiring (which has already been done), and buying the locomotives (which the T could easily get off-the-shelf, instead of some of the new diesels they're buying).
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby AEM7AC920 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:51 pm

All of the MBTAs equipment as far as coaches go are limited to 80 MPH max.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby boblothrope » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:05 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:All of the MBTAs equipment as far as coaches go are limited to 80 MPH max.


That's too bad.

But electrics would still be a big help, since on a route with frequent stops, acceleration is more important than top speed.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby CSX Conductor » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:02 pm

Of course the T would have to have tracks 3&4 in Attleboro wired, as well as Track #3 between Post & Packard......and the siding for Wickford Jct.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby AEM7AC920 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:07 pm

boblothrope wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:All of the MBTAs equipment as far as coaches go are limited to 80 MPH max.


That's too bad.

But electrics would still be a big help, since on a route with frequent stops, acceleration is more important than top speed.


Indeed although I'm willing to bet the new diesels will fill in just a nice if not better vs us getting some of the tired ALPs from NJT. A lot of people bash the MP units but they sure don't have any issues getting 7 or 8 doubles up to speed nicely, even coming into stops in the first notch they just keep pulling.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:55 am

Hmm does power braking not totally defeat the purpose of blended brake ?
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby AEM7AC920 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:12 am

We are taught here that power brake is 4th notch or higher and stretch braking is anything under. Yes the railroad wants blended to be used but a lot of guys around here don't use it and expect you to run there way when working as a student ;) To answer your question yes it does
Last edited by AEM7AC920 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby boblothrope » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:18 pm

AEM7AC920 wrote:
boblothrope wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:All of the MBTAs equipment as far as coaches go are limited to 80 MPH max.


That's too bad.

But electrics would still be a big help, since on a route with frequent stops, acceleration is more important than top speed.


Indeed although I'm willing to bet the new diesels will fill in just a nice if not better vs us getting some of the tired ALPs from NJT. A lot of people bash the MP units but they sure don't have any issues getting 7 or 8 doubles up to speed nicely, even coming into stops in the first notch they just keep pulling.


If I were in charge, the T would buy EMUs. Their performance blows anything else out of the water.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby Elcamo » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:45 am

boblothrope wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:
boblothrope wrote:
AEM7AC920 wrote:All of the MBTAs equipment as far as coaches go are limited to 80 MPH max.


That's too bad.

But electrics would still be a big help, since on a route with frequent stops, acceleration is more important than top speed.


Indeed although I'm willing to bet the new diesels will fill in just a nice if not better vs us getting some of the tired ALPs from NJT. A lot of people bash the MP units but they sure don't have any issues getting 7 or 8 doubles up to speed nicely, even coming into stops in the first notch they just keep pulling.


If I were in charge, the T would buy EMUs. Their performance blows anything else out of the water.


As does their initial start-up cost. They may bring lot's of long term savings to the T, but it was cost much more to buy the sets, upgrade track, and build facilities to repair them. I believe that they should start by electrifying the major intercity routes on the MBTA commuter rail, the Providence line and the Worcester line, along with standard push-pull electric loco's. This is obviously just my opinion (which doesn't matter all that much), but it seems the way to do it IMO.
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Re: T electrics on NEC?

Postby The EGE » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 pm

The most likely way for the T to get electrification is the same way it happened on the NEC - wait for Amtrak to do it. Because Amtrak has a more direct connection to federal monies, they have more spare change for capital projects. The Shore Line only has so much capacity; sooner or later, we're going to see the Inland Route electrified.

If the Worcester Line is electrified, the T will have a lot more incentive to get electric rolling stock. Removing all the inner-belt stops - West Natick through Newtonville on the Worcester Line; and Hyde Park, Readville (with the unused platforms) and Canton Junction on the Providence - from expresses would do wonders for ridership on those two lines. Running electric locals that can get out of the way of expresses is easier than trying to run diesels.
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