Sending MARC to WIlmington

Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

Moderators: Robert Paniagua, therock

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby STrRedWolf » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:21 pm

The only way that it would make sense is if SEPTA got diesel service Wilmington to Trenton, so that Amtrak could be mostly electric on the NEC and the regionals would be backup service between DC and New York. It would be interesting but not really effective.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby sammy2009 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:22 pm

SEPTA is no where going Diesel at all and cannot due to tunnel ventilation issues. Was you meaning for storage purposes ?
sammy2009
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:16 am

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby STrRedWolf » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:26 am

sammy2009 wrote:SEPTA is no where going Diesel at all and cannot due to tunnel ventilation issues. Was you meaning for storage purposes ?


Nope. Passenger. Which tunnel has the issues? I doubt it will be because you can't access Trenton without "turning" at 30th street.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby The EGE » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:52 am

Center City Tunnel is electric-only. And why would you want to deconvert SEPTA service on existing electrified lines? Diesel-hauled trains have poor acceleration which means longer journey times. The only future use for diesel on SEPTA will be dual-modes for extending service on lines that don't justify the cost of electrification.
User avatar
The EGE
 
Posts: 2460
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:16 pm
Location: Waiting for the N Judah

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby STrRedWolf » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:38 pm

Putting aside the fact that SEPTA isn't apt to going diesel service, I re-traced the tracks on Google Maps. I really don't see how you need to even go into the Center City tunnels if you turn the train (IE send it in reverse) at 30th Street. If you really don't want to make the University City stop, you can forgo turning.

But that's a tangent we can shelve for now.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby sammy2009 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:37 pm

30th St has two levels. SEPTA is only permitted on lower level of 30th I think when and if emergency or some type of project preventing the stop at University City. I think this also falls under who is certified to operate on 30th St lower level also.?, I'm not sure how a regular service on the lower level would fly with Amtrak with trains coming as frequent and plus NJT with their own track. Septa has their own level for a reason. But it still is curiously a wonder. I don't think TRENTON trains even originate from Wilmington.
sammy2009
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:16 am

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby ExCon90 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:22 pm

Not only that, consider that the majority of SEPTA passengers are destined to Suburban Station, Market East (nobody gave me $5 million to call it something else), and Temple U; up the escalator from the Lower Level platform, through the concourse past Stairway 9, right turn up the ramp, keep going to the right stairway and up the escalator to the Upper Level platform, return reverse of above. Not going to happen. (Oh, and don't forget the turnstiles of the future.)
ExCon90
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby farecard » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:26 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:Any place where it's only two tracks wide is basically a bone of contention for any added service anywhere... How many places in Maryland are there that's only two tracks?



All of WMATA, alas.....
User avatar
farecard
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:40 am

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby gprimr1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:22 pm

Around Elkton I believe is double track.

Also around Edgewood I believe, plus the Susquehanna River bridge, though I believe if MARC rebuild the east side of Perryville and added a some switches, they could reduce the issues caused by having to cross the row.
-Greg Primrose
Moderator: General Discussion: High Speed Rail Amtrak
"I'm leaving on a jet train, don't know when I'll be back again. Bags are packed and there ready to go."
Ave Atque Vale
User avatar
gprimr1
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Towson Maryland

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:54 pm

Unless it's changed, the three tracks through Elkton extend to BACON interlocking at North East and go back to four at PRINCE. South of Havre de Grace there are three tracks until reaching the double-track bridge over the Bush River, then there are two outer tracks, 1 and 4, from there (I believe traditionally used for getting unit coal trains out of the way, but I don't know whether that traffic is still moving--if not, those tracks could presumably be upgraded for overtaking MARC trains). After that there are two tracks on the bridge crossing the Gunpowder River, then four again. A big choke point (although not directly concerning MARC) is the 15-mph curve, immediately north of the Susquehanna bridge, onto the Port Road for freights to and from Baltimore; it takes a long time for a typical freight train to go through GRACE at 15mph, completely blocking the NEC while so doing, and no practical solution immediately apparent.
ExCon90
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Maryland trains to Newark inch closer

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:12 am

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/new ... /98325318/

A longtime proposal to run commuter trains between Newark and Perryville, Maryland, took a step forward this week after transportation planners submitted preliminary results of a feasibility study to officials in Delaware, Maryland and Pennsylvania.


...

If plans come together smoothly and financing is ironed out, the earliest possible date for a commuter train extension south of Newark would be 2020, one year after a renovation to the Newark train station is complete.
JeffersonLeeEng
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:57 pm

Re: Maryland trains to Newark inch closer

Postby STrRedWolf » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:59 am

JeffersonLeeEng wrote:http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2017/02/23/maryland-trains-newark-inch-closer/98325318/
If plans come together smoothly and financing is ironed out, the earliest possible date for a commuter train extension south of Newark would be 2020, one year after a renovation to the Newark train station is complete.


I pulled some supporting docs through what Wikipedia had pointed to, and the effort is "True third track and new platforms." I look at my local stations (Odenton, BWI) plus Baltimore Penn Station, and my initial thoughts say "Yeah, you need four tracks and three platforms."

Then the questions of "How many trains stop at Newark, DE and when, if we're going to turn trains there?" and "Wait, what's there now?" pop up.

Here's the station off of WikiMapia. It's already four tracked, but no center platform... and why is it low platform?

Amtrak's Northwest Regional's stops there only at most three times a day in any one direction, and at weird times. SEPTA is at most ten times a day on weekdays in any one direction, mainly during rush hours, with additional connecting bus service by Delaware's DART bus to Wilmington; on weekends, it's seven times a day in any one direction with two hour headways. Looking over the schedules, and it's looking like SEPTA's got some deadheading and some idle time in there, but there's enough slack that they could turn MARC trains at Newark right now... except that we'd need some station and track work.

Trace the line to the west in Wikimapia. Between the IRON interlocking and PRINCE interlocking, you got areas that are two and three track wide. IRON shrinks the line to three tracks, BACON shrinks it down to two, and PRINCE expands it back out to four. Go further into Baltimore, and you got even more issues of two tracking. Without expanding out those two-track sections, you're going to have a tough time finagling the schedule to make it work. Add the fact that Martins State Airport MARC stop and Perryville MARC stop are only one platform (not two on the sides).

That's just to Newark. Wilmington itself will need to be four tracked or even five-tracked for MARC to turn there under current conditions. There's just too much of a load from SEPTA and Amtrak combined to allow it to happen.

"Build/Fix" is looking more of an option in order to give Amtrak some breathing room to make it work.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby jackintosh11 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:10 am

No service to Newark on SEPTA on weekends
User avatar
jackintosh11
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby STrRedWolf » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:03 pm

jackintosh11 wrote:No service to Newark on SEPTA on weekends


I stand corrected on a minor point. The main point still is, if it turns at Newark, the station needs some upgrades. If it turns at Wilmington, the station and track needs upgrades.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Sending MARC to WIlmington

Postby jmatchesky » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

ExCon90 wrote:Not only that, consider that the majority of SEPTA passengers are destined to Suburban Station, Market East (nobody gave me $5 million to call it something else), and Temple U; up the escalator from the Lower Level platform, through the concourse past Stairway 9, right turn up the ramp, keep going to the right stairway and up the escalator to the Upper Level platform, return reverse of above. Not going to happen. (Oh, and don't forget the turnstiles of the future.)



If there was ever a real reason to need single seat commuter service from Wilmington/Newark to Trenton, you could run trains north from Delaware, through the CCT in Philly, up the West Trenton Line, and rework the "junction" near Woodbourne to route those trains to Trenton rather than West Trenton.

Of course, there would never be an actual reason to need this. Taking commuter rail from Wilmington/Newark to Trenton would take 2.5 hours and would still only have you in Trenton. This makes absolutely no sense and no person would ever ride it the whole way. If you try to fix that problem by expressing trains, well Amtrak already does that and does it faster.
jmatchesky
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:35 pm

Previous

Return to DC - Maryland - Virginia Area Passenger Rail: MTA(MARC), VRE, WMATA(Metro)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests