Newark, Delaware Extension - SEPTA Connection

Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

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Re: MARC and SEPTA's Relationship?

Postby skm » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:56 pm

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Re: MARC and SEPTA's Relationship?

Postby strench707 » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:34 pm

Ah okay, so it seems pretty far off. Oh well, its probably not a feasible time to start one of those kind of projects right now anyways.

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Re: MARC and SEPTA's Relationship?

Postby realtype » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:50 am

gprimr1 wrote:Marc took a huge hit as Maryland continues it's economic collapse under our current failure of a govt.

That said, I do believe SEPTA was willing to adjust the Newark trains to meet up, or very close to, the MARC trains.

The needed trackwork is mostly between Baltimore and Newark. Too many sections of just 2 tracks.


Every state government is struggling especially New Jersey, Michigan, and California. Maryland is actually doing relatively well considering.

HokieNav wrote:Here's MARC's plan as of 2 years ago: they're already far behind.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=43627

As far as this "before fares started getting jacked up", what are you referring to? I've ridden the MARC daily for 2 years and sporadically for the 2 years preceding that and have never seen a fare increase. Old-timers say that it's been quite a while since the fares have gone up around here, much to the disappointment of some when the MTA chose service reductions over fare increases to balance the budget last year.


Yeah, I was very dissapointed that MARC chose to cut service instead of raising fares, I've heard NJT did the same thing. Apparently VRE has raised it's fares 3 times during the past 18 months. That's way too extreme, but a minor bump in the fares would greatly increase revenue, seeing how MARC ridership seems to be still increasing for some reason.
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NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby Bobby S » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:37 pm

I know a goal is to have service eventually connecting with SEPTA whether at Elkton MD or Perryville MD so one can have commuter rail options to go to Philly and points North. Will any of this be because of NEC upgrades by Amtrak or will it be a joint effort upgrade by all involved - Amtrak/MARC/SEPTA ? Thanks. I am aware of the details such as bridge replacement and adding trackage. Oh yeah $$$ too! Just want to know who will be the "responsible party" aka $$$!
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby ThirdRail7 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 am

All of the above is the logical answer. Amtrak owns the territory, but would be a joint contribution in terms of funding the improvements necessary to the service.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby BuddCar711 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:34 pm

Well if there was going to be a connection, it would be in Newark. As of right now, SEPTA serves 3 states (Pa, N.J., and De), and SEPTA would have go through Delaware into Maryland (and I do not know any TA would go through an entire state that is not that TA's home state to serve another state. But then again, it is also rare for a commuter rail connection in which the state is not the home state of either TAs.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby realtype » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:23 pm

MARC also serves 3 "states": MD, DC, and WV. In addition to the plan to serve Newark, even further on the backburner are plans to serve Virginia after going through DC, which would be an example of the case you describe (a commuter agency going through an entire state that it's not based in to serve another state). So it wouldn't really be too radical for SEPTA to serve Perryville, or even MARC to serve Wilmington.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby BuddCar711 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:27 pm

But the thing is that SEPTA would cross a state border that is not its home state. The states that MARC serves still has Maryland on one side of the border. If SEPTA reinstated service to West Chester and extended it into Maryland, then SEPTA would cross a state line with Pennsylvania still being on one side, but to extend the R2 into Perryville, the state line would be Delaware and Maryland (and the "P" in SEPTA stands for Pennsylvania). That's what would make it unusual.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby Sand Box John » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:19 pm

MARC provides service to West Virginia at the expense of West Virginia, similar agreements would be made between Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State Maryland to provide SEPTA service into Maryland, between the States of Delaware and Maryland to provide MARC service into Delaware and between the State of Maryland and the Commonwealth of Virginia to provide MARC service into Virginia.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby realtype » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:26 pm

BuddCar711 wrote:But the thing is that SEPTA would cross a state border that is not its home state. The states that MARC serves still has Maryland on one side of the border. If SEPTA reinstated service to West Chester and extended it into Maryland, then SEPTA would cross a state line with Pennsylvania still being on one side, but to extend the R2 into Perryville, the state line would be Delaware and Maryland (and the "P" in SEPTA stands for Pennsylvania). That's what would make it unusual.


Yeah it would be the same for MARC service to Northern Virgina (which isn't likely to happen anytime soon) since trains would go through Washington D.C. which isn't in MD.

@ Sand Box John:
West Virginia no longer pays for MARC service. The MTA charges a surcharge on WV passengers to fund service to the state. I'm not sure if MD could get DE to pay for service to Newark. The extension is primarily to serve Elkton, MD residents.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby Arlington » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:30 am

While we "network" junkies like to imagine connections, few in Maryland need/want a two-seat ride to PHL, and few north of Newark DE need/want a two-seat ride to Baltimore or Washington. Really, Amtrak serves the "super-commuter" market (like Sen. Joe Biden in the day) well enough, that connecting MARC/SEPTA isn't going to get you enough new riders to justify service to a connecting point.

What pays for expansion is not two-seat rides, but real one-seat reverse commutes, which don't rely on a connection, but from north and south might nonetheless have a "non-rush" terminus they can agree on.

For this, either Newark DE (and Marylanders getting to the University of Delaware) or Aberdeen (and BRAC'd military folks in Aberdeen) make the most sense as destinations in their own right in the "not Baltimore" and "not Philly" directions, and might one day find themselves making connections *possible* (but not the driving force behind the decision to "meet").
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:28 pm

Everyone: I am surprised that no one mentioned that DelDot does financially support SEPTA Rail Service to Delaware stations...

I wonder now if DelDot is willing to contribute to extending MARC service to Newark and Wilmington to connect with SEPTA
at either point...

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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby rdc » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:22 pm

MARC had published a plan a few years ago to extend service to Newark, Delaware by 2015. DelDOT also at one point had plans for a Newark-Dover commuter service but they seem to have been dropped due to high cost + low ridership. DelDOT is planning a new Amtrak / SEPTA station at the site of the closed Chrysler Plant. The plant was purchased by the University of Delaware. Some of the yard tracks formerly used for the plant could be used for laying-over SEPTA and MARC equipment.

Maryland, Delaware, and Pennsylvania should look into a restoration of the former Chesapeake service from Washington to Philadelphia with an emphasis on serving intermediate points such as Chester PA, Newark DE, and Aberdeen MD. Amtrak could run this service.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby ThirdRail7 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:37 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone: I am surprised that no one mentioned that DelDot does financially support SEPTA Rail Service to Delaware stations...

I wonder now if DelDot is willing to contribute to extending MARC service to Newark and Wilmington to connect with SEPTA
at either point...

MACTRAXX


Apparently, they actually own 4 SEPTA cars!

New trains will ride busier rails
SEPTA expands service, adds modern Silverliner Vs to fleet

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/2 ... ck_check=1

A brief "fair use" quote:

WILMINGTON — Four shiny, new SEPTA cars, each tattooed with the First State insignia, rolled to a stop at the train station here Thursday, as officials hailed the delivery of Delaware’s first state-owned commuter-rail cars.

Southeast Pennsylvania Transportation Authority General Manager Joseph Casey called the Silverliner Vs a “welcome addition” to the SEPTA fleet, noting the “strong and growing customer market” in Delaware.
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Re: NEC expansion for MARC to SEPTA

Postby realtype » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:33 am

From the MARC Riders Advisory Council June Meeting minutes:

[MTA Deputy Administrator]Simon Taylor noted that when we get new rail cars next year, and if MARC gets funding, service between
Penn Station to Newark may be considered.


It's good to see that the extension is still in the works. Funding shouldn't be too much of an issue with Maryland's improving budget situation. It would really only be a matter of permanent increased operational costs and the cost of restoring the Elkton station.

http://mta.maryland.gov/sites/default/files/minutes-2012-06-21.pdf
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