All Things WMATA 7000 Series

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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby farecard » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:56 pm

The watts are going somewhere.....

I wonder what performance specs are in the contract.

[On aircraft, the maker promises the buyer what the finished aircraft will do. The MD-11 infamously fell far short on range and MTOW; Boeing ended up paying for that each flight until the airlines pulled them from passenger service. (They ended up mostly with FedEx where volume mattered more than pounds.)]

If there's similar requirements in the 7000 contact........
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby MCL1981 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:25 pm

I'm not even sure who the blame belongs with on this. Does the design and contract call for a specific range of power consumption? Did the engineering design meet that specification? Was it tested after being built to verify the specification? And literally not a single person with a functioning brainstem at WMATA and/or Kawasaki noticed the utter failure? Or was all of that just skipped? Via con dios, send us trains? It is simply beyond comprehension that even an organization as incompetent as WMATA could accidentally miss this little detail.

Or is 25% more power consumption approximately what the design, engineering, contracts, and expectations were? In that case, did WMATA just kind of forget that their traction power systems are about to get completely overloaded as these trains being to saturate the system? If this is the case, it is still beyond comprehension even for the low mental standards of WMATA. Present company not withstanding of course.
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby Chris Brown » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:21 pm

I know WMATA was asking for power upgrades to allow them to run 100% 8-car trains. Maybe this is their sneaky way for forcing the power upgrades?

Still 25% is absurd. Where is that power going? I thought the 7K cars had less horsepower than earlier models. The added weight is not enough to add 25% either.
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby JackRussell » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:45 pm

MCL1981 wrote:I'm not even sure who the blame belongs with on this. Does the design and contract call for a specific range of power consumption? Did the engineering design meet that specification? Was it tested after being built to verify the specification? And literally not a single person with a functioning brainstem at WMATA and/or Kawasaki noticed the utter failure? Or was all of that just skipped? Via con dios, send us trains? It is simply beyond comprehension that even an organization as incompetent as WMATA could accidentally miss this little detail.


I have this vague recollection that there was a pdf out there at one time that had the full specs of the 7000 series. I have no recollection if I still have it or not - for all I know one can still find it with the right Google-fu. I might still have it on my PC downstairs. But that would tell us what information was given to Kawasaki at the time the contract went out.
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby JackRussell » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:01 pm

So I guess these things have no form of regenerative braking. I did see that they have recently studied what the power savings would be if they had regenerative braking:

https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.d ... ._0086.pdf

I had first thought that the increased railcar weight would explain the difference, but the railcars are only about 10% heavier.
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby srepetsk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:39 pm

The trains do have regenerative braking (there are two types of braking modes, friction and dynamic). The FTA study you link to looked into the possibilities of what might happen if WMATA were able to store that energy dispersed by the trains while braking.
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby JDC » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:49 am

Just to keep track of these things, this past week I saw cars 7444 and 7445 (or it might have been 445 and 446...it's been several days now).
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby Chris Brown » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:46 pm

JDC wrote:Just to keep track of these things, this past week I saw cars 7444 and 7445 (or it might have been 445 and 446...it's been several days now).


In another thread, someone mentioned that car #7528 might be the last. Apparently the relationship between Kawasaki and WMATA has gone off the rails (no pun intended) and WMATA is considering canceling the contract option for the extra 220 fleet expansion cars. These might instead be added to the 8K series order.

Anyone know what happened? Seems like the cars are being delivered very quickly now so why is WMATA so salty on Kawasaki?
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby Sand Box John » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:05 pm

"Chris Brown"
Anyone know what happened? Seems like the cars are being delivered very quickly now so why is WMATA so salty on Kawasaki?


This might be just the tip of the iceberg on why the relationship between WMATA and Kawasaki is souring.

Metro’s new cars falling short of requirements
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Re: All Things WMATA 7000 Series

Postby Head-end View » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:21 pm

So is the problem thought to be that Kawasaki is not as good a builder as they used to be, OR that WMATA's spec's and requirements were not well thought out, OR that today's train car is such an electric and electronic computer nightmare to design and build that these kinds of glitches are going to happen no matter what company builds the car, or a mix of some or all-of-the-above? :(
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