Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

Moderators: Robert Paniagua, therock, mtuandrew

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby MCL1981 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:28 am

scratchy wrote:as it stands, the state wants to pour more money on double decking !270, which will cost way more than adding a third track to the Met.


Adding a third track to the met doesn't get people anywhere but Silver Spring and Washington. It does nothing for the huge amount of vehicle traffic going everywhere else. The highway needs to be much wider with many more lanes. And no amount of additional rail capacity to DC is going to change that need.
MCL1981
 
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:23 am

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby scratchy » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:28 pm

Sand Box John wrote:"scratchy"
Most of the NEC was 4 track, up to Landover. When they built some of the platforms in the 80s, they never expected that the 4 track capacity would be needed again, and thus,need to rip them out.


I'm afraid you have it wrong. The Pennsylvania Railroad built the right of way between Lanvale Street in Baltimore and the Landover interlocking to accommodate a future 4th track. A short segment south of Lanvale Street had the 4th track installed during electrification in the 1930s, that segments was extended to Halethorp at a later date. The entire length between Lanvale Street and Landover has never been mostly 4 track. At several of the MARC and Amtrak stations the 3 tracks from the 1930 footprint were realigned to accommodate station platforms.


https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0347307 ... a=!3m1!1e3
so, this bridge never had 4 tracks, and the northbound track that separates from the southbound south of odenton has always been one track?
scratchy
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby gprimr1 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:52 pm

It still amazes to this day the Silver line was built without at least three tracks. It should have been built with 4. While some have stated the purpose of the DC metro was to bring people into DC and thus express tracks weren't as needed, the Silver line also serves to connect the DC area to Dulles airport.

As it stands now, it takes 1h 11m to go from Largo to Reston via the Silver line vs 45 minutes by car. Adding 1-2 extra tracks would have allowed Metro to run "Dulles Express" trains. Imagine this service:

Largo Town Center
Stadium Armory
Lefant Plaza
Metro Center
Rosslyn
East Falls Church
Reston East

Only stopping at those stations. With service like that, Dulles could easily leverage it's larger airfield, more international destinations, and lack of noise/mileage curfews and compete with BWI and DCA.
-Greg Primrose
Moderator: General Discussion: High Speed Rail Amtrak
"I'm leaving on a jet train, don't know when I'll be back again. Bags are packed and there ready to go."
Ave Atque Vale
User avatar
gprimr1
 
Posts: 3872
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Towson Maryland

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby Sand Box John » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:13 pm

"gprimr1"
As it stands now, it takes 1h 11m to go from Largo to Reston via the Silver line vs 45 minutes by car. Adding 1-2 extra tracks would have allowed Metro to run "Dulles Express" trains.


Facts to pass on to you:

WMATA cut the top speeds trains ran at by one third back in the 1990s.
They did that to extend the life of the railroad and the rolling stock that ran on it.
They would have had to do neither had they procured rolling stock at the same pace they were building out the railroad.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
User avatar
Sand Box John
 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: Hebron Maryland

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby YOLO » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:47 pm

Decided to put my ideas onto a fantasy map: https://i.imgur.com/GjdiJ2Q.png

I also thought that a DC streetcar circle line would be interesting: https://i.imgur.com/cV2JdaB.png
YOLO
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:50 pm

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby gprimr1 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:49 pm

Even with that reduction, if they had included a third track with a few 4 track stations for passing, the Dulles Flyer express could have been a reality and opened up Dulles for people on the east side of DC.
-Greg Primrose
Moderator: General Discussion: High Speed Rail Amtrak
"I'm leaving on a jet train, don't know when I'll be back again. Bags are packed and there ready to go."
Ave Atque Vale
User avatar
gprimr1
 
Posts: 3872
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Towson Maryland

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby Sand Box John » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:08 am

"gprimr1"
Even with that reduction, if they had included a third track with a few 4 track stations for passing, the Dulles Flyer express could have been a reality and opened up Dulles for people on the east side of DC.


Historical ridership statistics disagree. That's why WMATA claims the problem is the Rosslyn bottleneck not the D&G Junction bottleneck.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
User avatar
Sand Box John
 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: Hebron Maryland

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby JDC » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:16 am

YOLO wrote:Decided to put my ideas onto a fantasy map: https://i.imgur.com/GjdiJ2Q.png

I also thought that a DC streetcar circle line would be interesting: https://i.imgur.com/cV2JdaB.png


To me, the problem with that map is that there is still no great way for those on the ends of the lines in VA to get right into DC quickly, without looping around, such as the new Yellow having to go all the way over to MD before getting into DC proper. The yellow line bridge is great because it ties folks in VA right to L'Enfant plaza and all of the other lines (except the Red).
Living in Alexandria, Fairfax County; Working at Half & L
User avatar
JDC
 
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 am
Location: Fairfax County, VA

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby johndmuller » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:56 am

The plan shown in the map is reasonably decent. Some Virginia riders from the south will not want to lose the L'Enfant route (at additional costs of various kinds, the green line could be split (half to go thru town via Union Sta,) to allow half the yellows to go thru via L'Enfant).

If the silver-orange is a 3 or preferably 4 track run between East and West Falls Church, the M street portion of that stream could continue along I-66 a little further beyond East Falls Church to its tunnel into DC, creating a bit of an express run there. If further express running is desired, the Tyson's stations could be bypassed by a short segment continuing around Tyson's on the toll road median instead of turning onto Chain Bridge Road (although I would imagine that a lot of people want to go to Tyson's, so this could be counterproductive).

Despite the allure of airports as a selling point for transit projects (because it is one of the few places where some people would consider going without a car), the Dulles station is probably not going to be so much of a ridership draw (although its employees may find it attractive.)
johndmuller
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby JDC » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:01 pm

People say that about Dulles, the issue is WMATA's operating hours may limit some/many employees' ability to use the system because of their start/end times. 9 to 5, sure, WMATA to Dulles works. But if you're in service industry working at a 24/7 airport, WMATA's reduced hours don't work so well for you. It will be very interesting to watch the station numbers for Dulles once we get those figures.
Living in Alexandria, Fairfax County; Working at Half & L
User avatar
JDC
 
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 am
Location: Fairfax County, VA

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby farecard » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:29 am

JDC wrote:People say that about Dulles, the issue is WMATA's operating hours may limit some/many employees' ability to use the system because of their start/end times. 9 to 5, sure, WMATA to Dulles works. But if you're in service industry working at a 24/7 airport, WMATA's reduced hours don't work so well for you. It will be very interesting to watch the station numbers for Dulles once we get those figures.


And I wonder how many airline passengers will use it, given that it is outdoors in our inhospitable climate and a LONG way from the terminal itself.
User avatar
farecard
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:40 am

Re: Metro wants study on a M Street subway tunnel

Postby Sand Box John » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:13 pm

"farecard"
And I wonder how many airline passengers will use it, given that it is outdoors in our inhospitable climate and a LONG way from the terminal itself.


The valet parking lot is not under cover like have the length of the station platform. Access to the station will not require using shuttle buses to get to the rental car agencies or satellite parking lots. One must walk past the station entrance to access garage 1, Access to garage 2 is mostly a wash when compared to the station, however it doesn't provide the luxury of a moving walkway that is used to access the station and garage 1.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
User avatar
Sand Box John
 
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: Hebron Maryland

Previous

Return to DC - Maryland - Virginia Area Passenger Rail: MTA(MARC), VRE, WMATA(Metro)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests