Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

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Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby davinp » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:33 am

In WMATA's Back2Good campaign, the GM said they would stop mixing the different series together and that 8 car trains would only be the new 7000 series.
So, why is WMATA not living up to this promise? I occasionally see a train of mixed railcars - 3000-6000-300 or 5000-3000-3000 and a 8 car train of 5000 series or 3000 series.
Why is WMATA still downing this? There is no need now that are many 7000 series in services and that the 1000/4000 are gone.
All 6 cars should be of the same series, not mixed. The only series that can be mixed are 2000/3000 since they are the same. The newer series cannot be mixed them.
The train sets work best when they are the same series. When mixed the LED signs inside don't work and some cars speakers don't work well.
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby Chris Brown » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:23 pm

It's only been a month since all the 1k and 4k cars were taken out of service. Reorganizing 750 railcars in multiple rail yards while doing maintenance and daily revenue service takes time.

The majority of trains are made of the same series. Mixing happens on occasion but its not like it used to be. Just be patient.
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby tommyboy6181 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:38 pm

davinp wrote:In WMATA's Back2Good campaign, the GM said they would stop mixing the different series together and that 8 car trains would only be the new 7000 series.
So, why is WMATA not living up to this promise? I occasionally see a train of mixed railcars - 3000-6000-300 or 5000-3000-3000 and a 8 car train of 5000 series or 3000 series.
Why is WMATA still downing this? There is no need now that are many 7000 series in services and that the 1000/4000 are gone.
All 6 cars should be of the same series, not mixed. The only series that can be mixed are 2000/3000 since they are the same. The newer series cannot be mixed them.
The train sets work best when they are the same series. When mixed the LED signs inside don't work and some cars speakers don't work well.


The interesting thing is that the 2k/3k/5k/6k trains all use the same LED signs and monitoring displays from Sepsa (now Schaltbau Sepsa). When the 2k/3k were rebuilt, those trains became identical so mixing them should be a non-issue. In reality, the displays should work when mixing the different cars since they're the same displays. But, there may have been an issue with how LonWorks was implemented in some of the trains IIRC that causes them to not work properly in instances of mixed consists.

Now when the 1k/4k were in active service, those series of cars did not have the equipment for the displays so that would have caused the issue of not working.
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby Chris Brown » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:16 pm

tommyboy6181 wrote:
davinp wrote:In WMATA's Back2Good campaign, the GM said they would stop mixing the different series together and that 8 car trains would only be the new 7000 series.
So, why is WMATA not living up to this promise? I occasionally see a train of mixed railcars - 3000-6000-300 or 5000-3000-3000 and a 8 car train of 5000 series or 3000 series.
Why is WMATA still downing this? There is no need now that are many 7000 series in services and that the 1000/4000 are gone.
All 6 cars should be of the same series, not mixed. The only series that can be mixed are 2000/3000 since they are the same. The newer series cannot be mixed them.
The train sets work best when they are the same series. When mixed the LED signs inside don't work and some cars speakers don't work well.


The interesting thing is that the 2k/3k/5k/6k trains all use the same LED signs and monitoring displays from Sepsa (now Schaltbau Sepsa). When the 2k/3k were rebuilt, those trains became identical so mixing them should be a non-issue. In reality, the displays should work when mixing the different cars since they're the same displays. But, there may have been an issue with how LonWorks was implemented in some of the trains IIRC that causes them to not work properly in instances of mixed consists.

Now when the 1k/4k were in active service, those series of cars did not have the equipment for the displays so that would have caused the issue of not working.


I've noticed the displays are working much better now with the 1k and 4k cars out of the mix. However, one time I was on a train of all 6k cars and the displays were only working in the first two cars.

Also.. isn't the propulsion system different on the 5k cars? I know its the same for 2k/3k and 6k.
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby STrRedWolf » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:15 pm

Chris Brown wrote:I've noticed the displays are working much better now with the 1k and 4k cars out of the mix. However, one time I was on a train of all 6k cars and the displays were only working in the first two cars.

Also.. isn't the propulsion system different on the 5k cars? I know its the same for 2k/3k and 6k.


I think that's part of the reason why they're scrapping the 5K's as well...
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby tommyboy6181 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:22 pm

Chris Brown wrote:
tommyboy6181 wrote:
davinp wrote:In WMATA's Back2Good campaign, the GM said they would stop mixing the different series together and that 8 car trains would only be the new 7000 series.
So, why is WMATA not living up to this promise? I occasionally see a train of mixed railcars - 3000-6000-300 or 5000-3000-3000 and a 8 car train of 5000 series or 3000 series.
Why is WMATA still downing this? There is no need now that are many 7000 series in services and that the 1000/4000 are gone.
All 6 cars should be of the same series, not mixed. The only series that can be mixed are 2000/3000 since they are the same. The newer series cannot be mixed them.
The train sets work best when they are the same series. When mixed the LED signs inside don't work and some cars speakers don't work well.


The interesting thing is that the 2k/3k/5k/6k trains all use the same LED signs and monitoring displays from Sepsa (now Schaltbau Sepsa). When the 2k/3k were rebuilt, those trains became identical so mixing them should be a non-issue. In reality, the displays should work when mixing the different cars since they're the same displays. But, there may have been an issue with how LonWorks was implemented in some of the trains IIRC that causes them to not work properly in instances of mixed consists.

Now when the 1k/4k were in active service, those series of cars did not have the equipment for the displays so that would have caused the issue of not working.


I've noticed the displays are working much better now with the 1k and 4k cars out of the mix. However, one time I was on a train of all 6k cars and the displays were only working in the first two cars.

Also.. isn't the propulsion system different on the 5k cars? I know its the same for 2k/3k and 6k.


The 5k cars use Bombardier MITRAC propulsion, whereas the 2/3/6k all use Alstom Onix.
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby Chris Brown » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:50 pm

It seems the mixing has stopped. Haven't seen a mixed train in over a month now.
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby STrRedWolf » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:17 pm

tommyboy6181 wrote:The 5k cars use Bombardier MITRAC propulsion, whereas the 2/3/6k all use Alstom Onix.


Another reason why they also are retiring the 5k's: Saves on training costs when you don't have to repair more than two propulsion units...
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
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Re: Why is WMATA still mixing some railcars?

Postby Chris Brown » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:01 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:
tommyboy6181 wrote:The 5k cars use Bombardier MITRAC propulsion, whereas the 2/3/6k all use Alstom Onix.


Another reason why they also are retiring the 5k's: Saves on training costs when you don't have to repair more than two propulsion units...


Would you say once all the 5k cars are gone, Metro will really only have TWO types of railcar mechanically?

Since Alstom both built the 6k's and overhauled the 2k's and 3k's.. it would seem those three types of railcar are basically identical mechanically or close.
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