Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

Moderators: Robert Paniagua, therock

Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby davinp » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:56 am

Weighed down by myriad rebuilding projects and safety priorities, Metro quietly cancelled plans to restore the automated operation of trains, despite having spent $106 million to replace more than 1,700 track circuits of the same model implicated in the 2009 Red Line crash at Fort Totten.

http://wamu.org/story/17/04/06/metro-sh ... ed-trains/
davinp
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:03 pm
Location: Woodbridge, VA

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby MCL1981 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:19 am

Typical metro PR stunt. Still pretending the 2009 crash was caused by an ATO failure.
MCL1981
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:23 am

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby Chris Brown » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:00 pm

The incompetence, inefficiency and general stupidity at Metro continues to defy comprehension.

Eights years ago now was the 2009 crash. Eight years. Almost a decade.

A decade to fix ATO? Absurd!
Chris Brown
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:16 am

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby STrRedWolf » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Eight years to fix ATO... and how long has Wiederfield been on the job?

My guess is that Wiederfield cut it until they could get the basics (signalling and rails) in good repair and kept there.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby MCL1981 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:44 pm

I would love to know what is actually wrong today. The red line crash in 2009 had nothing at all to do with ATO. It was track circuits causing ATP to fail. Which applies whether you're using ATO or not. The accident would have happened exactly the same whether they were using ATO or manual. It's a PR stunt to pretend the system is safer in manual. Just like bellying the 1000s was a PR stunt to pretend they're safer now.
MCL1981
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:23 am

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby Chris Brown » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:17 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:Eight years to fix ATO... and how long has Wiederfield been on the job?

My guess is that Wiederfield cut it until they could get the basics (signalling and rails) in good repair and kept there.


Should of been fixed long before Wiedefeld. In fact, it should of been fixed before Obama's second term.
Chris Brown
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:16 am

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby STrRedWolf » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:04 am

MCL1981 wrote:I would love to know what is actually wrong today. The red line crash in 2009 had nothing at all to do with ATO. It was track circuits causing ATP to fail. Which applies whether you're using ATO or not. The accident would have happened exactly the same whether they were using ATO or manual. It's a PR stunt to pretend the system is safer in manual. Just like bellying the 1000s was a PR stunt to pretend they're safer now.


Whoa whoa whoa! ATO uses ATP to know what's going on the rail and where cars are. In essence, ATO *IS* the operator, and if ATP isn't up to snuff, it makes no sense to turn on ATO -- similar accidents are going to happen again.

Besides, ATP can't control a train going slower than 15 MPH, and there's no backup system. WMATA has a need to control trains down to 10 MPH, and they're still doing repairs on everything. Their ATP is broken by design.

Will we see ATO come back on board? Yes, when PTC comes on board. Anytime soon? Not at all.
I ride the (MTA Maryland) Penn Line (between Odenton and Baltimore). I used to work for MTA Maryland's IT department, and out of professional courtesy my responses may be limited. Wikimapia is wonderful (for track/interlocking locations)!
User avatar
STrRedWolf
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby Sand Box John » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:03 pm

"STrRedWolf"

Besides, ATP can't control a train going slower than 15 MPH, and there's no backup system. WMATA has a need to control trains down to 10 MPH, and they're still doing repairs on everything. Their ATP is broken by design.


ATP does control a train down to below 15 MPH. When ATP is enabled it can only be overridden after first coming to a complete stop.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
User avatar
Sand Box John
 
Posts: 2724
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: Hebron Maryland

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby MCL1981 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:55 pm

The operator in manual would have been responding to the same speed command that ATO was responding to. 55mph. ATO did not cause the crash.
MCL1981
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:23 am

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby MattW » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:02 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:
MCL1981 wrote:I would love to know what is actually wrong today. The red line crash in 2009 had nothing at all to do with ATO. It was track circuits causing ATP to fail. Which applies whether you're using ATO or not. The accident would have happened exactly the same whether they were using ATO or manual. It's a PR stunt to pretend the system is safer in manual. Just like bellying the 1000s was a PR stunt to pretend they're safer now.


Whoa whoa whoa! ATO uses ATP to know what's going on the rail and where cars are. In essence, ATO *IS* the operator, and if ATP isn't up to snuff, it makes no sense to turn on ATO -- similar accidents are going to happen again.

Besides, ATP can't control a train going slower than 15 MPH, and there's no backup system. WMATA has a need to control trains down to 10 MPH, and they're still doing repairs on everything. Their ATP is broken by design.

Will we see ATO come back on board? Yes, when PTC comes on board. Anytime soon? Not at all.

PTC? What does that have anything to do with Metro?
MattW
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (ATL)

Re: Metro cancels plans to bring back automated trains

Postby Sand Box John » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:15 pm

"MattW"
PTC? What does that have anything to do with Metro?


Nothing. An individual on reddit.com tried to insert PTC into the discussion on this issue. I and another shot him down because WMATA's train board ATP does everything PTC does.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
User avatar
Sand Box John
 
Posts: 2724
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: Hebron Maryland


Return to DC - Maryland - Virginia Area Passenger Rail: MTA(MARC), VRE, WMATA(Metro)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests