Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

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Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby davinp » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:43 pm

Metro has 87 4000 series cars and will start retiring them next week.
They've already retired more than 1/2 of the 1000 series cars.
All cars are being replaced with the new 7000 series cars
The train that broke down this morning consisted of 1000 and 4000 series cars

https://www.wmata.com/about/news/4k-retire.cfm
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby STrRedWolf » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:11 pm

I would think they'd get rid of all the 1000's before they start on the 4000's. Are the 4000's the second worst car in comparison to the 1000s?
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby JackRussell » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:20 pm

STrRedWolf wrote:I would think they'd get rid of all the 1000's before they start on the 4000's. Are the 4000's the second worst car in comparison to the 1000s?


It may be that there are some of the 4000 series that have been laid up at the yard, and it made more sense to scrap them instead of repairing them.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby Sand Box John » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:26 pm

"STrRedWolf"
I would think they'd get rid of all the 1000's before they start on the 4000's. Are the 4000's the second worst car in comparison to the 1000s?


From the WMATA press release linked above:

"The 4000-series rail cars are by far Metro’s least reliable, traveling an average of only 27,259 miles between delays. By contrast, the best performing cars, the 6000-series, are nearly four times more reliable, traveling more than 103,000 miles between delays."

The 1k car are being scrapped because of their inadequate crash worthiness and age, not their level reliability.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:43 am

Were the 4K's buried in consist due to a glitch in their cab signal/automatic control systems?
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby MCL1981 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:53 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Were the 4K's buried in consist due to a glitch in their cab signal/automatic control systems?

The statement about the consist broken down in the tunnel being all 4s and 1s doesn't make sense. There would still need to be some other pair on the leading and trailing ends since neither 1s or 4s can lead.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby Sand Box John » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:47 pm

"MCL1981"

The statement about the consist broken down in the tunnel being all 4s and 1s doesn't make sense. There would still need to be some other pair on the leading and trailing ends since neither 1s or 4s can lead.


From the press release linked to above:

"This morning, customers on the Orange, Silver and Blue lines experienced lengthy delays due to a disabled train with a brake problem outside of Foggy Bottom Station. The train’s consist included both 1000- and 4000-series cars."

The one pair of 1k cars and 1 pair of 4k cars sandwiched between 2 pairs of cars of from other series.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby Chris Brown » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:00 pm

MCL1981 wrote:
Backshophoss wrote:Were the 4K's buried in consist due to a glitch in their cab signal/automatic control systems?

The statement about the consist broken down in the tunnel being all 4s and 1s doesn't make sense. There would still need to be some other pair on the leading and trailing ends since neither 1s or 4s can lead.


It didn't say the train was made up of 100% 4k and 1k cars. It said the train consisted of them. It was probably an 8 car train that had a 4k and 1k pair in the middle with newer cars in the front and back like this:

5k-5k+1k-1k+4k-4k+3k-3k.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby JDC » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:05 pm

This announcement made my day! I rode in a 4000-series car this morning, and hated all 40 minutes of it. As primarily a Yellow line rider, removing the 1ks and 4ks really benefits me because I will see 2/3/5/6k cars in greater numbers. Sadly I rarely experience a 7k.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby Chris Brown » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:51 pm

JDC wrote:This announcement made my day! I rode in a 4000-series car this morning, and hated all 40 minutes of it. As primarily a Yellow line rider, removing the 1ks and 4ks really benefits me because I will see 2/3/5/6k cars in greater numbers. Sadly I rarely experience a 7k.


The red line seems to have almost all of them. On the red line you are more likely to catch a 7k train than any other kind right now.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby jkovach » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:21 pm

I like how they say "delay" instead of "breakdown" or "malfunction" or "failure"...
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby realtype » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:02 pm

First 4K car is retired:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/02/15/metro-retires-first-of-its-4000-series-cars-the-least-reliable-in-its-fleet

It seems that the 4000 series is being somewhat unfairly judged. They might be the most unreliable simply because they're the oldest cars in the fleet that haven't been overhauled. Otherwise you would think that they would be even more reliable than the 2000 and 3000 series simply because Breda would have had enough experience that all the flaws and defects in those series would have been worked out by the time of the 4K contract. If they had been overhauled by Alstom with the 2K and 3K cars they probably would have been just as, if not more reliable.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby MCL1981 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:42 pm

Haven't these reliability problems been the case long before they decided not to rehab them? Like, these problems are *why* the decided not to rehab them in the first place.
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby realtype » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:10 pm

MCL1981 wrote:Haven't these reliability problems been the case long before they decided not to rehab them? Like, these problems are *why* the decided not to rehab them in the first place.


In that case, why are these cars so unreliable compared to the 2000 and 3000 series? Usually when a product is produced over an extended period of time, with essentially the same basic design, you see incremental improvements in reliability, quality, etc.

This should be especially true when it's the exact same manufacturer building the later iterations. Design flaws should have been fixed, reliability issues should have been mitigated, and the overall manufacturing process improved.

I find it dumbfounding that Breda could have produced an inferior product to not only their own 2000 and 3000 series, but also the 1000s. The only logical explanations I can think of are:
a) they intentionally cut corners to increase their profit margin or it was a rushed contract and they were under pressure to deliver
b) they were considerable "under-the-skin" design changes or new technology integrations
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Re: Metro to begin retiring 4000 series next week

Postby MCL1981 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:56 pm

Remember, we're talking about WMATA here. The words should, could, and would are popular. As opposed to the words did and done. You act surprised it's all screwed up :p
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